Boy Who Flew With Condors - Dick Johnson? Other Comments

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 10:17:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Thanks Evan for linking those articles. Great reads.

Best Regards,
Daniel

Definitely... this is quickly becoming one of the most productive threads i've seen to date on RAS.

On 4/1/2016 6:29 PM, Tango Eight wrote:
I'm just going to drop these links right here. No comment needed.

http://www.pacificsoaring.org/docume...antenbrink.pdf

http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

https://www-ee.stanford.edu/~hellman...2007_talk.html

-Evan Ludeman / T8


Awesome stuff! I remember the first time I read Dave Nadler's article. It was
- in one word - compelling. (Still is!) I can't remember if I wrote to him or
to "Soaring" mag's editor, but it warranted written kudos! The other two links
are of equally compelling content. Thanks for posting!

Bob W.

I was just going to thank everyone for the resurrection of this old thread because it reminded me about this movie and I finally got off my rear and watched it!

Hi,

Also, available for purchase legally he
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/video...lewWithCondors

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
_______________________________________

"Jonathan St. Cloud" wrote in message
...

Boy who flew with condors youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqHXiaMhSIo

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 6:35:28 AM UTC-6, wrote:
R Buck, thanks for the post. It also brought back many good old memories. That movie was one of the major influencers when I was a 14 year old kid learning in the 2-22. I felt I was in heaven the day I solo'd in the 1-26! 40 years later I ended up acquiring that self same 1-26 serial number 225 and am reworking all the badges.

As to low thermalling, I've made saves routinely from 200 ft. Its not the dangerous big deal that many make it out to be, and in the "old days" of flying low performance ships, its something of an essential skill needed if you intend to get anywhere xc. The issue is not "turns at low levels", its improper turns. I turn 8 to 14 hours a day, all day long at below 200 ft with an insainly high wing loading (2000 lbs of fertilizer) and I do it safely. Those that make arbitrary rules about thermalling are missing and stunting a natural progression of soaring education that should occur. Most that make these rules have never learned themselves.

Yes its a good starting place rule for new students. As a cfi-g I also discourage newby's and pilots with undeveloped airmanship from low saves. But at the same time we work and work and work on proper turning and recognizing "feeling" and knowing exactly what is happening in every portion of the turn, so when they find themselves in a "bind", they're not in a freak out sense of anxiety, they turn properly and either make a save or land out, neither of which is a big deal to the guy who is prepared.

My hubby, John, is the proud owner of SN#226 and is in the process of cleaning it and restoring it!

Margaret Birsner MAY now be Margaret Rapaport and living in New York.

I have had numerous climb-outs from 200' in a Woodstock 11.9m. I used to practice them daily around 8:00 am at Zapata, TX.

However, in the prototype Carbon Dragon I once had a 63' agl climb-out at Hobbs at the beginning of a World Record attempt. This was witnessed by an FAI Official Observer who was appointed out of Geneva (pre-Paris) and who rigorously analyzed the barogram after the fact, being rather amazed at the time. This was utillizing mid morning, "soft" thermals which derived more than 50% of their bouyancy from latent heat in the humidity. There was some wind, and the only challenging moment was when I had to narrow my bank angle to make sure my inside wing lifted over a telephone wire while drifting by..

Gary Osoba

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 2:19:58 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I have had numerous climb-outs from 200' in a Woodstock 11.9m. I used to practice them daily around 8:00 am at Zapata, TX.

However, in the prototype Carbon Dragon I once had a 63' agl climb-out at Hobbs at the beginning of a World Record attempt. This was witnessed by an FAI Official Observer who was appointed out of Geneva (pre-Paris) and who rigorously analyzed the barogram after the fact, being rather amazed at the time. This was utillizing mid morning, "soft" thermals which derived more than 50% of their bouyancy from latent heat in the humidity. There was some wind, and the only challenging moment was when I had to narrow my bank angle to make sure my inside wing lifted over a telephone wire while drifting by.

Gary Osoba

Gary, let's be careful with anecdotes such as yours. What you are doing in a small, very light wing-load glider is not applicable to the kind of soaring we normally do. In fact it might lead to others trying that kind of flying in a Discus or '27. My club had just yesterday a safety meeting around the topic of "Normalization of Deviance". Thermaling lower and lower and getting away with it fits that definition and has lead to numerous fatalities in our sport. Your stories are the opposite of what we need. The fact that I can throw my Discus-launch RC glider in the air and soar for long times does not mean that's the future of soaring. Please modify your post.
Herb

On 8/28/2016 8:00 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 2:19:58 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I have had numerous climb-outs from 200' in a Woodstock 11.9m. I used to
practice them daily around 8:00 am at Zapata, TX.

However, in the prototype Carbon Dragon I once had a 63' agl climb-out at
Hobbs at the beginning of a World Record attempt. This was witnessed by
an FAI Official Observer who was appointed out of Geneva (pre-Paris) and
who rigorously analyzed the barogram after the fact, being rather amazed
at the time. This was utillizing mid morning, "soft" thermals which
derived more than 50% of their bouyancy from latent heat in the humidity.
There was some wind, and the only challenging moment was when I had to
narrow my bank angle to make sure my inside wing lifted over a telephone
wire while drifting by.

Gary Osoba

Gary, let's be careful with anecdotes such as yours. What you are doing in
a small, very light wing-load glider is not applicable to the kind of
soaring we normally do. In fact it might lead to others trying that kind of
flying in a Discus or '27. My club had just yesterday a safety meeting
around the topic of "Normalization of Deviance". Thermaling lower and lower
and getting away with it fits that definition and has lead to numerous
fatalities in our sport. Your stories are the opposite of what we need. The
fact that I can throw my Discus-launch RC glider in the air and soar for
long times does not mean that's the future of soaring. Please modify your
post. Herb


Modify how? As you've accurately pointed out, wingloading makes for some very
real differences in ship-thermaling capabilities. As a Big Believer in
education (externally-/self-directed, both), I also believe discouraging
discussion is some combination of
pointless/self-defeating/non-positively-authoritarian. (Yes, there's a place
for "positive authoritarianism" as parents of young children and dog-owners
generally understand )

Darwinism is likely ineradicable from life. The trick for us glider pilots is
to avoid making those mistakes that will kill us. Arguably, drawing uninformed
conclusions from RAS has "Very Real death potential," simultaneously with RAS
information also having fundamental educational potential. Life's full of
contradictory conundrums (conumdra?).

Margins. Respect them, cuz they don't respect anything!

Respectfully,
Bob W.

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 12:57:01 PM UTC-4, BobW wrote:
... young children and dog-owners generally understand )

Are you calling RAS-ers young children and dogs??
Now you've gone and offended young children and dogs...