resign commission for warrant officer questions

I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.

"1LT 15B in AH-64D" wrote in message
om...
I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.

I believe what you would have to do is seek a "determination in grade",
which balances your qualifications/schools against regulatory requirments to
determine your qualification to serve at a lower grade. One oiece of
advice--don't let *anyone* talk you into resigning your commission prior to
getting a firm determination in writing, since you can only resign once, the
it is most definitely "finis". Being as CW2 and above are now considered
commissioned officers, IIRC, you may not even have to resign your
commission. Have you thought of just submitting a 4187 requesting assignment
to active duty?

Brooks

Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: (1LT 15B in AH-64D)
Date: 6/17/04 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.



Have you lost your mind? Or are you looking for a section 8? Give up a
commission for a lower rank? You will regret it forever. Those captains bars
are just around the corner. Hang in there and fight fiercely.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: (1LT 15B in AH-64D)
Date: 6/17/04 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.



Have you lost your mind? Or are you looking for a section 8? Give up a
commission for a lower rank? You will regret it forever. Those captains
bars
are just around the corner. Hang in there and fight fiercely.

Pardon Art for being utterly clueless about anything military happening
post-1945. He obviously does not understand that the bulk of the actual
flying duty in the modern US Army is accomplished by WO/CWO's, who are a bit
less likely to find themselves pullling tours "out of the cockpit". I had a
very good buddy who went the WO route after college; he later called me up
and told me he was being offered a commssion in the MSC (he was then a
Dustoff pilot). I told him flat-out that if he was really interested in the
flying part of the job, stay on the warrant side. He decided otherwise, and
took a commission as a 2LT. By the time he was a 1LT he was already getting
tired of increasing BS--he left the Army before his O-3 board even met.

Brooks



Arthur Kramer

Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: (1LT 15B in AH-64D)
Date: 6/17/04 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.



If you resign your commission you will never be a squadron commander, or a
group commander or a wing commander. You will never fly lead and have the
thrill of being the first over the target or the first to hit the enemy.Keep
your commission. Never throw away success.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: (1LT 15B in AH-64D)
Date: 6/17/04 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.



If you resign your commission you will never be a squadron commander, or a
group commander or a wing commander.

He is in the *Army*, flying AH-64's--which means he is unlikely to ever
*serve* in a squadron (which designation only applies to cavalry units in
the Army), and most definitely won't serve in a *group* ( I don't think that
there is any such critter left in the aviation side of the house, and the
remaining Army groups have danged little to do with aviation, being more
likely to be found in the engineers, transportation, and QM branches) or
*wing*.

You will never fly lead and have the
thrill of being the first over the target or the first to hit the enemy.

Being a CWO flying an AH-64 could very well place him in a position where he
is flying the lead aircraft on a mission--do you know much of anything about
modern Army aviation? Hazard a guess--which do you think is the preponderant
class of pilots in the Army's premier aviation orgnization, the 160th SOAR,
warrants or "normal" commissioned officers? Try the warrant side...

Keep
your commission. Never throw away success.

Being as you have once again proven beyond any doubt that you are utterly
clueless about anything military in the post-WWII era, the value of your
advice is rather suspect. If the guy really wants to fly on active duty, and
places flying above rank in his priority list, then taking a commission as a
CWO versus what he now has may well be a worthwhile trade. That is for him
to decide, not some has-been blowhard who obviously is so out of touch with
reality that he can't even grasp the fact that Army aviation has changed a
hell of a lot since the pre-USAF days of the USAAF. And BTW, if he were to
take a warrant, he'd likely still be a commissioned officer, strange as that
may seem to you--again, the Army has changed quite a bit over the last sixty
or so odd years.

Brooks


Arthur Kramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: (1LT 15B in AH-64D)
Date: 6/17/04 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.



If you resign your commission you will never be a squadron commander, or a
group commander or a wing commander. You will never fly lead and have the
thrill of being the first over the target or the first to hit the
enemy.Keep
your commission. Never throw away success.

Obviously, Art is stuck in 1945. Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today. In fact, every Grp or Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to fly
lead. Thats what they have senior captains and majors for.

In message , ArtKramr
writes

snip

If you resign your commission you will never be a squadron commander, or a
group commander or a wing commander. You will never fly lead and have the
thrill of being the first over the target or the first to hit the enemy.Keep
your commission. Never throw away success.

That last sentence is absolutely right. I did it once ( don't ask ) and
have regretted it for 40 years.
I can't comment on the main problem.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: "Ragnar"
Date: 6/18/04 2:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: (1LT 15B in AH-64D)
Date: 6/17/04 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to
go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to
apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have
been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities
are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in
their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not.
I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement
Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet
another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been
pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help.



If you resign your commission you will never be a squadron commander, or a
group commander or a wing commander. You will never fly lead and have the
thrill of being the first over the target or the first to hit the
enemy.Keep
your commission. Never throw away success.

Obviously, Art is stuck in 1945. Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today. In fact, every Grp or Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to fly
lead. Thats what they have senior captains and majors for.


But sure as hell not warrant officers.Give up a commision for a lower rank?
Beyond my comprehension in 1945 or at any other time. Well, this is a
different generation I guess.
..



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today.

Not true.

In fact, every Grp or Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to fly
lead.

Hmmm, every group or wing commander I've known was a fully qualified instructor
not only capable of leading a formation or acting as a mission commander, but
capable of training others to do so.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"