First glider to buy 10-20k euro's

Hey everyone, I'm a young pilot aspiring regular 300-400km flights. Currently I have done a few XC flights in an SZD 51-1 Junior at 100-200km already but I'm limited by club members who want to fly as well.

I've been looking at a few gliders and read a lot of reviews but still would like some more information besides club members and a few websites.

Currently I have an eye out for these few (in order of current interest):
DG-100/101, LS-1f, Standard Cirrus, Libelle, ASW19

I'm a fairly slim and small pilot at 1m 70 tall and weight without parachute at 60kg. I have 70 solo hours, most of them in SZD 51-1 Junior and about 15 of those with both LS4 and Centrair Pegase.

My ambitions are 300-400km+ flights, some local competitions for fun but nothing too serious. Easy rigging is a plus. Budget would be between 10-20k euro's.

What would you recommend me?

DG will be good handling, terrific visibility, and performance at bargain price, from what I see. You pay a real premium for an LS1f as compared to an LS1c or d. Are they really twice as good? Std Cirrus is a good deal on price and performance. Std Libelle seems to be climbing in price, maybe because of Club Class capability (handicap lower than performance is, so it is "competitive"?)? ASW19 is the heaviest of the bunch, but it is a Schleicher with terrific handling and attention to detail for the period.

Buy a good plane in a very good trailer!

Good luck!

Steve Leonard

On Wed, 14 Mar 2018 08:10:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

Hey everyone, I'm a young pilot aspiring regular 300-400km flights.
Currently I have done a few XC flights in an SZD 51-1 Junior at
100-200km already but I'm limited by club members who want to fly as
well.

.....
What would you recommend me?

I have a similar history (first solo was my club's SZD Junior, then club
owned Pegase and Discus, then an ASW-20 and my current Std Libelle. Of
these I still like flying a Junior in winter, liked the Pegase more than
the Discii and prefer my Libelle to the ASW-20. The Libelle is a better
match with my flying style.

If you like flying the Junior, you'd probably also like the Libelle,
which goes like a Junior on steroids (cruises at up to 80 kts before
falling out of the shy compared with 60 kts for the Junior), both climb
equally well and the all-round view from the cockpit is much better than
the Junior. You sound as though sound as though you'd fit one too.
My notes about it may help you decide if a Libelle is for you:

https://www.gregorie.org/gliding/lib...201_notes.html

You might also consider an H.205 Club Libelle if you see one on offer.
There's one in my club: one of our instructors used to own it and thinks
it doesn't give much performance away to the H.201 Std Libelle. They are
a lot cheaper, too.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

All of the gliders you mention are good. You're not oversized so you should be comfortable in a Libelle. The DG's and the LS are fine ships but there is the service contract - I don't have a problem with it (my club owns a 300 that requires the contract and a 505 that doesn't) but it seems to upset many people. The 19 would be my preference, mostly because I think it's the prettiest of the bunch:-)

More important than the model is the particular glider. For example I love the ASW-19 but if the choice was a beat up 19 with a bad trailer versus a cherry Standard Cirrus in a Komet/Cobra clamshell, I would go for the Cirrus..

Take the one in the best condition and with a decent trailer.

Keeping this aside, I'd recommend an LS1-f. Others for sure will have their own opinion :-)

Reasons: It flies nicely, has a very good feel of the thermals, climbs well and is very responsive. Glide performance is a tiny bit better than the Std. Cirrus. Unless heavily repaired or modified with a tail weight, they have a minimum loading of 60kg. Easy to rig, wings are light (60-65kg). They are sensitive to bugs, though. And you might need a service contract. I had one for 7 years, my girlfriend also just bought one and is very happy with it.

Libelles climb well and provide a great view outside but controls are not that effective and nicely balanced as with the F. I personally did not like it that much.

ASW19 has nice and responsive handling, a roomy and sturdy cockpit, but not the same feel of the thermals as the F. It is not very sensitive to bugs and has good performance at high speeds. The wings are quite heavy (~70kg), but they are well built. Would be my second choice.

Standard Cirrus flies nicely but not as stable as the F. Has good feel of the thermals. It needs some more practice and you need to keep your hand at the stick most of the time (all-flying tail).

On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:11:01 AM UTC-6, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm a young pilot aspiring regular 300-400km flights. Currently I have done a few XC flights in an SZD 51-1 Junior at 100-200km already but I'm limited by club members who want to fly as well.

I've been looking at a few gliders and read a lot of reviews but still would like some more information besides club members and a few websites.

Currently I have an eye out for these few (in order of current interest):
DG-100/101, LS-1f, Standard Cirrus, Libelle, ASW19

I'm a fairly slim and small pilot at 1m 70 tall and weight without parachute at 60kg. I have 70 solo hours, most of them in SZD 51-1 Junior and about 15 of those with both LS4 and Centrair Pegase.

My ambitions are 300-400km+ flights, some local competitions for fun but nothing too serious. Easy rigging is a plus. Budget would be between 10-20k euro's.

What would you recommend me?

Get a Libelle and thank me later. Just don't get tall like me.

I'm a fairly slim and small pilot at 1m 70 tall and weight without parachute at 60kg. I have 70 solo hours, most of them in SZD 51-1 Junior and about 15 of those with both LS4 and Centrair Pegase.

Sean-
You say you have experience in the Pegase. I am surprised you are considering the LS1, ASW-19, Standard Cirrus, DG-100 or Libelle. I have owned two Pegase gliders over the last 18 years, and in my opinion (yeah, MY opinion!) the Pegase outperforms all of the above. I have done a 500+ km flight (DRY!) in under 4 hours (on an exceptional Moriarty day) and have over a hundred 500 km flights.

I bought my first Pegase with about 60 hours in my logbook and since then have added another 2,400 hours, almost all in the Pegase. (In the US, we just call it the Pegasus.)

There are plenty of good things to say about all of the gliders you mentioned, but the Peg shouldn't be disregarded. With a full load of water, it runs acceptably. Not on the order of a Discus, but it tends to be half the price and I love the handling.

If you want to see my Pegase, check out the "Cloudstreet: Soaring the American West" video.

Op vrijdag 16 maart 2018 02:22:04 UTC+1 schreef :
I'm a fairly slim and small pilot at 1m 70 tall and weight without parachute at 60kg. I have 70 solo hours, most of them in SZD 51-1 Junior and about 15 of those with both LS4 and Centrair Pegase.

Sean-
You say you have experience in the Pegase. I am surprised you are considering the LS1, ASW-19, Standard Cirrus, DG-100 or Libelle. I have owned two Pegase gliders over the last 18 years, and in my opinion (yeah, MY opinion!) the Pegase outperforms all of the above. I have done a 500+ km flight (DRY!) in under 4 hours (on an exceptional Moriarty day) and have over a hundred 500 km flights.

I bought my first Pegase with about 60 hours in my logbook and since then have added another 2,400 hours, almost all in the Pegase. (In the US, we just call it the Pegasus.)

There are plenty of good things to say about all of the gliders you mentioned, but the Peg shouldn't be disregarded. With a full load of water, it runs acceptably. Not on the order of a Discus, but it tends to be half the price and I love the handling.

If you want to see my Pegase, check out the "Cloudstreet: Soaring the American West" video.

I do have a few hours in the Pegase but they are slightly out of budget at about 5-10k more than I would like to spend.

Op vrijdag 16 maart 2018 01:38:59 UTC+1 schreef Collin Shea:
On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 9:11:01 AM UTC-6, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm a young pilot aspiring regular 300-400km flights. Currently I have done a few XC flights in an SZD 51-1 Junior at 100-200km already but I'm limited by club members who want to fly as well.

I've been looking at a few gliders and read a lot of reviews but still would like some more information besides club members and a few websites.

Currently I have an eye out for these few (in order of current interest):
DG-100/101, LS-1f, Standard Cirrus, Libelle, ASW19

I'm a fairly slim and small pilot at 1m 70 tall and weight without parachute at 60kg. I have 70 solo hours, most of them in SZD 51-1 Junior and about 15 of those with both LS4 and Centrair Pegase.

My ambitions are 300-400km+ flights, some local competitions for fun but nothing too serious. Easy rigging is a plus. Budget would be between 10-20k euro's.

What would you recommend me?

Get a Libelle and thank me later. Just don't get tall like me.

After having spoken to a few DG/Libelle/Cirrus owners I am really considering the Libelle. What would be the points to look out for when buying one, in your opinion?

Op donderdag 15 maart 2018 19:53:00 UTC+1 schreef :
Take the one in the best condition and with a decent trailer.

Keeping this aside, I'd recommend an LS1-f. Others for sure will have their own opinion :-)

Reasons: It flies nicely, has a very good feel of the thermals, climbs well and is very responsive. Glide performance is a tiny bit better than the Std. Cirrus. Unless heavily repaired or modified with a tail weight, they have a minimum loading of 60kg. Easy to rig, wings are light (60-65kg). They are sensitive to bugs, though. And you might need a service contract. I had one for 7 years, my girlfriend also just bought one and is very happy with it.

Libelles climb well and provide a great view outside but controls are not that effective and nicely balanced as with the F. I personally did not like it that much.

ASW19 has nice and responsive handling, a roomy and sturdy cockpit, but not the same feel of the thermals as the F. It is not very sensitive to bugs and has good performance at high speeds. The wings are quite heavy (~70kg), but they are well built. Would be my second choice.

Standard Cirrus flies nicely but not as stable as the F. Has good feel of the thermals. It needs some more practice and you need to keep your hand at the stick most of the time (all-flying tail).

The LS1-f looks very appealing, since you've had an LS1-f, what would you recommend to look out for when buying one? Nobody I know ever owned/owns an F, and I can't find much information on what to look out for. I know about the Service Contract with DG though.