Phoebus A as a first glider

What are your thoughts regarding the Phoebus A as a first glider for a low-time pilot who received their training in a 2-33? I have the opportunity to acquire a Phoebus for a very good price from the club that I'm training with, but it has not flown in over 15yrs. No one knows of any obvious problems with it, but no one can say it is OK either. It does not come with a trailer.

http://phoebus.vassel.com/site_page_2511/

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 9:48:50 PM UTC-7, wrote:
http://phoebus.vassel.com/site_page_2511/

Thanks for the link. That is a very insightful evaluation. I'm also interested in what others think, particularly those who have flown a Phoebus.

At 03:05 13 April 2018, John Foster wrote:
What are your thoughts regarding the Phoebus A as a first glider for a
low-=
time pilot who received their training in a 2-33? I have the opportunity
t=
o acquire a Phoebus for a very good price from the club that I'm training
w=
ith, but it has not flown in over 15yrs. No one knows of any obvious
probl=
ems with it, but no one can say it is OK either. It does not come with a
t=
railer.

I wouldn't touch a glider that hadn't been flown for 15 years almost
regardless of type or price. There are too many things that could go wrong
when you try to return it to flying condition.

Especially as the first thing you will need to do is get a trailer. Even
if you can keep it hangared this will inhibit your attempts to go cross
country because of the difficulty of getting retrieved.

At the very least don't commit to it until it has been restored to flying
condition and flown. This will increase the price but will, I think, be
well worth it.

It might make a good project for a vintage glider enthusiast.

Chris

There are things that you want to know about the Phoebus. Bruno spent about an hour on the phone with me before I bought mine. I'm happy to do the same with you. They get a bad rap which I think is undeserved, I have quite enjoyed flying mine. I also learned to fly in a 2-33, but was able to spend time in 1-26 and a Lark, both good ships to prepare for the Phoebus. I have had no issues with the transition.

The concern about returning a glider from a 15 year hiatus is valid, as is the lack of trailer.

JD at spoot us if you want to email me!

JD

Hi a John, I did the same thing with a Phoebus C. They are fairly bulletproof and easy to work on, we have given ours away for free to young pilots to build time on. They go pretty well cross country but they are are a bit of a floater, not that comfortable, have wooden wings, have gelcoat issues and a removable canopy.
Ours had dual electric varios, flarm, radio and Oudie.
I can’t help feeling that as more than 6 years have now passed and you would be better off in a more modern 15m like a Astir, libelle, cirrus, hornet, Jantar ect. All of them are old but can still be competitive in club class. With the Phoebus I think you would always be looking at the more modern glider.

Justin

Originally Posted by John Foster

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 9:48:50 PM UTC-7, wrote:
http://phoebus.vassel.com/site_page_2511/

Thanks for the link. That is a very insightful evaluation. I'm also interested in what others think, particularly those who have flown a Phoebus.

I had a "B" Phoebus for may years (same as the "A" but retractable gear). Handles reasonably well, climbs great, lousy penetration. Very wide span elevator which catches the spill from the dive brakes so it vibrates & rumbles with the brakes open (which can be disconcerting). Dive brake handle was very short so it was hard to modulate the brakes (I lengthened it). Removable canopy is a PITA (they all are).Elevator is big clumsy and a little hard to rig at times. Bolkow sometimes used motorcycle front wheels (with spokes removed) for the main gear (look to see if there are spoke holes in the wheel) so the wheels will not take any side load. Big all flying tail so she can be a little twitchy on tow but you will figure it out quickly. Oxygen bottle mount(on flimsy removable fiberglass tray behind pilot's head) is incredibly dangerous and simply should not be used.

If the glider is sound and inspected by a person knowledgeable about glass/balsa construction it should be OK as a first glider.

Good luck

ROY

On Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:05:26 PM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
...it has not flown in over 15yrs. It does not come with a trailer.

....fiberglass and balsa wood sandwich technique

The airworthiness of this particular aircraft is the large gaping open question. Do you have an expert in this particular type who knows where to look for problems? Is it possible to find those problems with non-destructive inspection?

Have you thought about a nicely restored 1-26? Old school XC. Lots of relatively safe low speed landout practice. Easy to resell. Parts and expertise readily available. A strong community of owners. And great fun.

You know the old joke: Buy the best trailer you can afford take whatever glider is in it.
It's funny because it is true. Make sure you source a trailer before going forward.

The Phoebus has a balawood core in the wings and fuselage, so Dry storage throughout its entire history is a must! A thorough inspection should reveal any water damage, look for soft spots that reveal mushy core. One more little tid-bit, all Phoebus wings are the same, the C (17 meter) was made by gluing a 1 meter glove onto the A or B wing. ...............got a C wing in the barn waiting for anyone in need.
JJ