Pre Pan-American and 2018 Canadian National Gliding Competition

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 2:15:06 PM UTC-4, Jock Proudfoot wrote:
At 15:46 17 August 2018, Dave Springford wrote:
Andy,
We'll also be looking for rental gliders for pilots from South America
and with Harris Hill only a few hours away, it is a good potential
source for rentals. Can you pass the word and see if you can find
any willing
renters?
Looking for 18 M, 15 M, Standard and Club Class gliders.
Also anyone at Ceaser Creek that could do the same would be
helpful.


Dates: 14 days late July / Early August 2019 - exact
dates to be announced in 2018 when the schedule
of major US contests is known to avoid conflicts.
Competition Classes:
• 18m Class
• Handicapped Class
Number of Contestants:
• 5 entries per class per country plus up to 5 pilots
from outside the Americas
• Maximum 45 entries
Cost:
• Entry fee 600 USD
• Tows: 50 USD per 2000 ft tow
Glider Rental:
Gliders are available for rent in the USA and to a
lesser extent in Canada.
Note: US gliders registered as “experimental� will
need a permit (approx. cost $100 CAD) to fly in
Canada.

https://www.fai.org/sites/default/fi..._6_3_bid_3rd_f
ai_pan_american_gliding_championships.pdf

I hope this $100 Canadians fee will be temporary removed,
or we can lobby for the same here.

SSA can make every entry of Canadian pilot in US pay extra $100.
All US pilots will get this $100 Canadians covered by our SSA.
We will be bit more than even.
Canadians have to fix it now or forever pay extra $100 for every pilot , every contest on US soil?

Ryszard

On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 1:19:45 AM UTC-4, RW wrote:
On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 2:15:06 PM UTC-4, Jock Proudfoot wrote:
At 15:46 17 August 2018, Dave Springford wrote:
Andy,
We'll also be looking for rental gliders for pilots from South America
and with Harris Hill only a few hours away, it is a good potential
source for rentals. Can you pass the word and see if you can find
any willing
renters?
Looking for 18 M, 15 M, Standard and Club Class gliders.
Also anyone at Ceaser Creek that could do the same would be
helpful.


Dates: 14 days late July / Early August 2019 - exact
dates to be announced in 2018 when the schedule
of major US contests is known to avoid conflicts.
Competition Classes:
• 18m Class
• Handicapped Class
Number of Contestants:
• 5 entries per class per country plus up to 5 pilots
from outside the Americas
• Maximum 45 entries
Cost:
• Entry fee 600 USD
• Tows: 50 USD per 2000 ft tow
Glider Rental:
Gliders are available for rent in the USA and to a
lesser extent in Canada.
Note: US gliders registered as “experimental� will
need a permit (approx. cost $100 CAD) to fly in
Canada.

https://www.fai.org/sites/default/fi..._6_3_bid_3rd_f
ai_pan_american_gliding_championships.pdf

I hope this $100 Canadians fee will be temporary removed,
or we can lobby for the same here.

SSA can make every entry of Canadian pilot in US pay extra $100.
All US pilots will get this $100 Canadians covered by our SSA.
We will be bit more than even.
Canadians have to fix it now or forever pay extra $100 for every pilot , every contest on US soil?

Ryszard

US contest committee will NOT be considering any predatory non constructive fees to our Canadian friends. They support our contests and we are glad to have them.
UH

On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 11:19:45 PM UTC-6, RW wrote:
On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 2:15:06 PM UTC-4, Jock Proudfoot wrote:
At 15:46 17 August 2018, Dave Springford wrote:
Andy,
We'll also be looking for rental gliders for pilots from South America
and with Harris Hill only a few hours away, it is a good potential
source for rentals. Can you pass the word and see if you can find
any willing
renters?
Looking for 18 M, 15 M, Standard and Club Class gliders.
Also anyone at Ceaser Creek that could do the same would be
helpful.


Dates: 14 days late July / Early August 2019 - exact
dates to be announced in 2018 when the schedule
of major US contests is known to avoid conflicts.
Competition Classes:
• 18m Class
• Handicapped Class
Number of Contestants:
• 5 entries per class per country plus up to 5 pilots
from outside the Americas
• Maximum 45 entries
Cost:
• Entry fee 600 USD
• Tows: 50 USD per 2000 ft tow
Glider Rental:
Gliders are available for rent in the USA and to a
lesser extent in Canada.
Note: US gliders registered as “experimental� will
need a permit (approx. cost $100 CAD) to fly in
Canada.

https://www.fai.org/sites/default/fi..._6_3_bid_3rd_f
ai_pan_american_gliding_championships.pdf

I hope this $100 Canadians fee will be temporary removed,
or we can lobby for the same here.

SSA can make every entry of Canadian pilot in US pay extra $100.
All US pilots will get this $100 Canadians covered by our SSA.
We will be bit more than even.
Canadians have to fix it now or forever pay extra $100 for every pilot , every contest on US soil?

Ryszard

This is not a Soaring Association of Canada fee. It is a Transport Canada fee and us Canadians don't much like it either. TC does not like experimental registered gliders. Almost all gliders in Canada have Standard Type Certificates. If we could change that we would.

Chris

I think our US friends have a good point here. They should not have to pay extra to be able to compete in an Experimental glider in Canada, given that FAA issues special flight permits to Canadians for free. I have been getting one every year in order to fly my Russia in the Region 8 contest.

I propose that the organizers and/or SAC either persuade Transport Canada to wave the fees or cover 100% of the fees.

Branko

Hi Branco,
All Canadian Gliders possess Type Certificates as the experimental category is not recognized in Canada. It is only the US registered gliders without type certificates that must fulfill this Transport Canada requirement.
Hosting the Pan Americans is an honour however not one without substantial additional costs to the host organization. The host club will pay approximately 2,600 Euros on behalf of the approximately 40 competitors to the FAI in sanction fees. In addition there are requirements for opening ceremonies, closing ceremonies, country flags and the list continues. We want to provide a safe fun contest for our many visitors. We are grateful to all of our North and South American friends who will join us for this contest.
If you would like to talk more about the Pan American contest please feel free to contact me at vthomp"at"rogers.com
Virginia Thompson
Contest Manager 2019 3rd FAI Pan American Championships

On Tuesday, August 28, 2018 at 12:18:31 AM UTC-4, Branko Stojkovic wrote:
I think our US friends have a good point here. They should not have to pay extra to be able to compete in an Experimental glider in Canada, given that FAA issues special flight permits to Canadians for free. I have been getting one every year in order to fly my Russia in the Region 8 contest.

I propose that the organizers and/or SAC either persuade Transport Canada to wave the fees or cover 100% of the fees.

Branko

I encourage you to lobby TC to waive this fee. Another issue is that it is only a temporary permit, so that each time you take the same US experimental glider to Canada you have to pay the fee... But this should not fall on the organizers, any more than paying a glider rental or insurance to fly a glider in the Panams. It's just one more cost.

On Tuesday, 28 August 2018 11:00:18 UTC-4, Juanman wrote:

I encourage you to lobby TC to waive this fee. Another issue is that it is only a temporary permit, so that each time you take the same US experimental glider to Canada you have to pay the fee...

Not quite right. The permit lasts for one year. So get it at the start of the season and fly up here for 6 months while the weather holds

I agree that the fee is a nuisance. At least you get to bring your glider here. I part-own a Twin Lark IS28B2 that aged past 35 years, so we put it into Owner Maintained to keep it flying. Now, the FAA won't let us fly it in the US. Nothing we can do about that.

Now, the FAA won't let us fly it in the US. Nothing we can do about that.

Yes there is. Check the October FAA clarification memo he

http://www.ssa.org/files/member/FAA%...7%20-%20Signed[2543].pdf

The original "guidance" memo from Gregory A. Davison of the FAA has been negated by this "clarification." Davison's interpretation has been refuted by this document.

On Tuesday, 28 August 2018 20:49:04 UTC-4, wrote:
Now, the FAA won't let us fly it in the US. Nothing we can do about that.

Yes there is. Check the October FAA clarification memo he

http://www.ssa.org/files/member/FAA%...7%20-%20Signed[2543].pdf

The original "guidance" memo from Gregory A. Davison of the FAA has been negated by this "clarification." Davison's interpretation has been refuted by this document.

Thanks, Mark. Unfortunately, my Twin Lark was put into Owner Maintenance Category in Canada before this notification, essentially stripping it of certification (and the data plate has been X'd out). FAA forbids such an aircraft from flying in the US; importing it to the US is also impossible.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviatio...-6483.html#own
Third paragraph.

Sandhill Soaring Club may have 2-3 members willing to rent their Standard Cirrus gliders to contestants flying in the PanAm Continentals next year. I will get the word out as best I can.

-Chris Schrader