GWB & The Military Factor

"Michael Wise" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Kevin Brooks" wrote:

I wonder hiw many G's Bush had to withstand on that helo
flight?

The S-3 is a "helo" in Artian World? Amazing feat of
transformation
you
have
going for you there--taking a twin engined carrier based ASW jet
and
turning
it into a "helo"...


Those of us who manned twin engines carrier based ASW helos might
object
to this seeming slight to the Navy helo community...not that we
didn't
frequently see it amongst are own kind in the CAG/CVW.

No "seeming slight" was implied; just an observation that Art is
(once
again) out-of-touch with reality when he claims Bush flew in on a
helo
and
did not require a flight suit, survival vest, etc.


I can assure you that a flight suit and SV-2 (survival vest) were
required wearing (over land or water) on most of 2000+ hours I flew on
Navy CV-based helos.

No doubt, as the Army even requires similar attire. But did you wear
Art's
"G-suit"?

The only people who wore G-suits in the Navy CVW were those who flew
jets (even Hoover guys, I believe), so no. Navy helo attire consists of
a flight suit, boots, helmut, gloves (rarely worn) and SV-2 (with HEEDS
bottle). On over-water missions or exercises, the rescue swimmer (almost
always the junior crewman) wears a rescue sling and BC in place of the
flight suit and SV-2.

Wow! Can you gander at the referenced photo and point to the "G suit" that
the President is supposedly wearing? I see a normal flight suit with
vest/etc., but no "G suit"; oddly enough, his pilot does not appear to be
wearing one either...

www.poptransit.com/ review2003/top.html





Personally, I have no gripes with the specific attire he wore as with
his advisors' decision to put him in a uniform he's barely sit to look
at.

"barely sit to look at"??? OK....right....


So from the context of my sentence you're not capable of spotting the
obvious typo as well as discerning what the word should have been?

No, not when you started it with, "I have no gripes with the specific attire
he wore as..." As what? "As it was required"? The "his advisors decision"
does not fit well into that introductory clause you created, and the "sit"
just further muddles whatever meaning you have tried to convey.


If I need to spell it out:

Bush Jr. is scarcely fit to even look at a Navy uniform; much less look
at one.

Ah-hah! Well, given that you have again proven incapable of even recognizing
the details of the uniform you have chosen to argue about (where is that G
suit again?), your conclsion above has to be taken in perspective--and your
perspective view appears to be a bit myopic. The fact is that Bush is one of
only two Presidents who does indeed have *any* claim on the right to don a
flightsuit, as he is one of only two who ever piloted military aircraft.
Now, I recommend you go back and brush up on "uniform details" and get that
whole G-suit recognition problem in hand...

Brooks



--Mike

--Mike

"Michael Wise" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Kevin Brooks" wrote:



No doubt, as the Army even requires similar attire. But did you wear
Art's
"G-suit"?

The only people who wore G-suits in the Navy CVW were those who flew
jets (even Hoover guys, I believe), so no. Navy helo attire consists
of
a flight suit, boots, helmut, gloves (rarely worn) and SV-2 (with
HEEDS
bottle). On over-water missions or exercises, the rescue swimmer
(almost
always the junior crewman) wears a rescue sling and BC in place of the
flight suit and SV-2.

Wow! Can you gander at the referenced photo and point to the "G suit"
that
the President is supposedly wearing?


No, but then again, I never said stated that Mr. Bush was (or wasn't)
wearing a G-suit...now did I?

"The only people who wore G-suits in the Navy CVW were those who flew jets
(even Hoover guys, I believe)..." Those were your words, right? And FYI,
what you were weighing in on was Art's less-than-accurate description of
Bush wearing a "G suit" for a "helo" ride.




I see a normal flight suit with
vest/etc., but no "G suit"; oddly enough, his pilot does not appear to
be
wearing one either...

www.poptransit.com/ review2003/top.html


Great, and this is relevant to what I said in what way?

See above, and go back and actually READ what you were responding to.



Bush Jr. is scarcely fit to even look at a Navy uniform; much less
look
at one.

Ah-hah! Well, given that you have again proven incapable of even
recognizing
the details of the uniform you have chosen to argue about (where is that
G
suit again?), your conclsion above has to be taken in perspective--and
your
perspective view appears to be a bit myopic.

Ah-hah! Well, given that you have again proven incapable of even
recognizing the details of a message thread (as in who said what) you
have chosen to argue about (where did I state Mr. Bush wore a G suit
again?)

See above.




Now, I recommend you go back and brush up on "uniform details" and get
that
whole G-suit recognition problem in hand...


While I'm doing that, I recommend you go back and brush up on "reading
comprehension details" as well as Usenet threading concepts...paying
particular attention to who is saying what. Then maybe you can get your
attribution problem in hand.

Eh? I do believe it was my comment about Art's characterization of Bush
wearing a "G suit" that was what you opined about, and added that bit about
S-3 crew wearing them, too....

Brooks



--Mike

From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 9/10/2004 11:02 AM Pac

ittle Bushie always wanted to be a
fighter pilot like daddy - only he failed

Daddy flew an SBD. Hardly a fighter.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Art wrote:
Daddy flew an SBD. Hardly a fighter.

Elder Bush flew a TBM or TBF. You screwed up again Art. But then it was not
B-26s in ETO, so it really didn't happen.

Rick

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 9/10/2004 11:02 AM Pac

ittle Bushie always wanted to be a
fighter pilot like daddy - only he failed

Daddy flew an SBD. Hardly a fighter.

You are wrong (he flew the TBM Avenger)--again. Or are you lying? How do we
tell the difference anymore?

Brooks



Arthur Kramer

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:42:28 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 9/10/2004 11:02 AM Pac

ittle Bushie always wanted to be a
fighter pilot like daddy - only he failed

Daddy flew an SBD. Hardly a fighter.

You are wrong (he flew the TBM Avenger)--again. Or are you lying? How do we
tell the difference anymore?

Brooks



Arthur Kramer


For the record, despite snipping leaving a credit line above, I said
none of the things in this post. I don't refer to the President as
"Bushie" and I don't refer to his father as "Daddy". And, while I may
be opinionated, I don't think I've been accused of lying recently even
when folks disagree with me.

Let's snip with a bit more care.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

Ed,

I can only see part of this thread - but I never associated the clip Art
included in his post as being something you would post - I'm sure very few
regular readers of this NG would have believed it came from you. I will
believe it was an accident - but somewhat skeptically.

Jack G.


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:42:28 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 9/10/2004 11:02 AM Pac

ittle Bushie always wanted to be a
fighter pilot like daddy - only he failed

Daddy flew an SBD. Hardly a fighter.

You are wrong (he flew the TBM Avenger)--again. Or are you lying? How do
we
tell the difference anymore?

Brooks



Arthur Kramer


For the record, despite snipping leaving a credit line above, I said
none of the things in this post. I don't refer to the President as
"Bushie" and I don't refer to his father as "Daddy". And, while I may
be opinionated, I don't think I've been accused of lying recently even
when folks disagree with me.

Let's snip with a bit more care.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

ibm wrote:



Mary Shafer wrote:


[snip]


I thought the senior Bush flew an airplane that dropped anti-shipping
torpedoes? That would make him an attack pilot by today's terms, I'd
think, not a fighter pilot.


Yes, the TB[F/M] was roled as a Torpedo Bomber but was capable
of moving dirt as well. Think heavy attack. The TB part of the
designator implies torpedo bomber.
An SBD or Helldiver driver would be more analogous to today's
VA crowd although you could do considerable damage from a
Corsair as well.

IBM


The Avenger, as a bomber, had a rather larger bombload than the SBD. Probably
around the same as the Helldiver.

Was it not on a dirt-moving mission over Chichi Jima that GHWB was shot down
and subsequently rescured by bubbleheads?

--
Marc Reeve
Some guy at a desk somewhere ^reverse^ for email

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Daddy flew an SBD. Hardly a fighter.


Daddy flew a TBM.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:42:28 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 9/10/2004 11:02 AM Pac

ittle Bushie always wanted to be a
fighter pilot like daddy - only he failed

Daddy flew an SBD. Hardly a fighter.

You are wrong (he flew the TBM Avenger)--again. Or are you lying? How do
we
tell the difference anymore?

Brooks



Arthur Kramer


For the record, despite snipping leaving a credit line above, I said
none of the things in this post. I don't refer to the President as
"Bushie" and I don't refer to his father as "Daddy". And, while I may
be opinionated, I don't think I've been accused of lying recently even
when folks disagree with me.

Firstly, I did not snip anything--period. You have a beef about the earlier
snips, take them to the source of the problem, which ain't me in this case.
Secondly, the liar bit is directed solely at Art, and I think you already
figured that out.

Brooks


Let's snip with a bit more care.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org