Bomber Pilots Never Look Down

Bomber Pilots Never Look Down

I was surprised to learn that bomber pilots never looked down. We flew all our
missions out of Florennes Belgium by doing our join-ups over Liege. We would
take off, get on a climbing heading for Liege, then do a wide, slow 360 while
the group joined up, each plane getting into the slot behind the plane it was
forming on. Then East into Germany. As a bombardier navigator, it wasn't long
before everything on the ground was etched in my memory. Every town, city,
river, rail line, lake was as familiar to me as the back of my hand. But not so
to many others. The war had ended and we now flew 4-hour missions to maintain
proficiency and earn our flight pay. On one of these missions Paul, our pilot
said, "Art, we are just going to do some stalls and engine outs so why don't
you go back into the nav compartment and take a snooze".

I did just that. After a while the intercom came alive and Paul said, "Ok Art,
all done. Take us home". I grabbed my sectionals, my E6-B and my Wheems plotter
and started forward for the nose. As I got between Bob and Paul I looked out
the windshield and there was Liege big as life. What the hell! Were these guys
pulling my leg? There is no way they couldn't recognize Liege, our join up
point for every mission we flew out of Florennes. I didn't get into the nose I
just pointed about 20 degrees left and said that way. You'll see the runway of
about 12 minutes". Paul said, "C'mon Art, stop screwing around. Get in the nose
and take us home". "That way Paul" I said. "Trust me" Paul shook his head in
disbelief but did as I directed and sure enough there was the runway in the ETA
I gave him. When we landed he said, "How the hell did you do that? How did you
know where we were so fast?" I said, "Are you guys kidding me? That was Liege
we were over. Don't tell me you can't recognize Liege when you see it?

Both Paul and Bob looked embarrassed. Further conversations revealed the truth.
Bomber pilots have their eyes glued to the plane they are forming on. Their
total attention is to the formation. They never looked down. The landmarks
which every bombagator knows by heart, is a mystery to most bomber pilots who
only see the plane they are formed on.

But this incident was good for lots of laughs on flights to come. When we
would cross the Rhine I would say, "hey guys that's the Rhine. And see those
two big church steeples?, that's Cologne. Remember all that stuff and maybe you
won't always have to wake me up to take you home".




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Bomber Pilots Never Look Down

I was surprised to learn that bomber pilots never looked down. We flew all
our
missions out of Florennes Belgium by doing our join-ups over Liege. We
would
take off, get on a climbing heading for Liege, then do a wide, slow 360
while
the group joined up, each plane getting into the slot behind the plane it
was
forming on. Then East into Germany. As a bombardier navigator, it wasn't
long
before everything on the ground was etched in my memory. Every town, city,
river, rail line, lake was as familiar to me as the back of my hand. But
not so
to many others. The war had ended and we now flew 4-hour missions to
maintain
proficiency and earn our flight pay. On one of these missions Paul, our
pilot
said, "Art, we are just going to do some stalls and engine outs so why
don't
you go back into the nav compartment and take a snooze".

You took a snooze while he stalled the plane?

(ArtKramr) wrote in message ...
Bomber Pilots Never Look Down

I was surprised to learn that bomber pilots never looked down. We flew all our
missions out of Florennes Belgium by doing our join-ups over Liege. We would
take off, get on a climbing heading for Liege, then do a wide, slow 360 while
the group joined up, each plane getting into the slot behind the plane it was
forming on. Then East into Germany. As a bombardier navigator, it wasn't long
before everything on the ground was etched in my memory. Every town, city,
river, rail line, lake was as familiar to me as the back of my hand. But not so
to many others. The war had ended and we now flew 4-hour missions to maintain
proficiency and earn our flight pay. On one of these missions Paul, our pilot
said, "Art, we are just going to do some stalls and engine outs so why don't
you go back into the nav compartment and take a snooze".

I did just that. After a while the intercom came alive and Paul said, "Ok Art,
all done. Take us home". I grabbed my sectionals, my E6-B and my Wheems plotter
and started forward for the nose. As I got between Bob and Paul I looked out
the windshield and there was Liege big as life. What the hell! Were these guys
pulling my leg? There is no way they couldn't recognize Liege, our join up
point for every mission we flew out of Florennes. I didn't get into the nose I
just pointed about 20 degrees left and said that way. You'll see the runway of
about 12 minutes". Paul said, "C'mon Art, stop screwing around. Get in the nose
and take us home". "That way Paul" I said. "Trust me" Paul shook his head in
disbelief but did as I directed and sure enough there was the runway in the ETA
I gave him. When we landed he said, "How the hell did you do that? How did you
know where we were so fast?" I said, "Are you guys kidding me? That was Liege
we were over. Don't tell me you can't recognize Liege when you see it?

Both Paul and Bob looked embarrassed. Further conversations revealed the truth.
Bomber pilots have their eyes glued to the plane they are forming on. Their
total attention is to the formation. They never looked down. The landmarks
which every bombagator knows by heart, is a mystery to most bomber pilots who
only see the plane they are formed on.

But this incident was good for lots of laughs on flights to come. When we
would cross the Rhine I would say, "hey guys that's the Rhine. And see those
two big church steeples?, that's Cologne. Remember all that stuff and maybe you
won't always have to wake me up to take you home".




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

This is a good story and jogs my rapidly failing memory. I spent years
as an instructor and evaluator beating pilots over the head for this
very thing. I once hitched a ride with a B-52 crew from Guam to
Shreveport, Louisiana. Before we got off the ground I had already
decided this was not a crew. It was just six uncoordinated individuals
flying on the same heading. I was disgusted by the lack of leadership
shown by the aircraft commander. All he could do was drive the bus
and toot the horn and he didn't even do that very well. Anyway,
between Guam and Hickam the navigator decided that he was lost and
asked the pilot to call someone and try to get a DF steer. Although it
was a clear day and the pilots had a map, they had never looked at it
because, after all, we were over the great Pacific Ocean -- right? I
did some quick DR in my head and asked for the map. I then told the
pilots to look over the nose of the aircraft and tell me what they
saw. There was Midway showing up as clearly as a diamond in a goat's
ass. We were on time and about two miles right of course. Later that
day I had to get in the copilots seat and complete an air refueling
the pilot could not handle. Several years later when I was at SAC
Headquarters this pilot's name came up for a staff job there. I
vetoed him immediately without reservation.

Gene Myers
Old BUFF pilot

Subject: Bomber Pilots Never Look Down
From: (buf3)
Date: 8/13/2004 3:48 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote in message
...
Bomber Pilots Never Look Down

I was surprised to learn that bomber pilots never looked down. We flew all
our
missions out of Florennes Belgium by doing our join-ups over Liege. We
would
take off, get on a climbing heading for Liege, then do a wide, slow 360
while
the group joined up, each plane getting into the slot behind the plane it
was
forming on. Then East into Germany. As a bombardier navigator, it wasn't
long
before everything on the ground was etched in my memory. Every town, city,
river, rail line, lake was as familiar to me as the back of my hand. But
not so
to many others. The war had ended and we now flew 4-hour missions to
maintain
proficiency and earn our flight pay. On one of these missions Paul, our
pilot
said, "Art, we are just going to do some stalls and engine outs so why
don't
you go back into the nav compartment and take a snooze".

I did just that. After a while the intercom came alive and Paul said, "Ok
Art,
all done. Take us home". I grabbed my sectionals, my E6-B and my Wheems
plotter
and started forward for the nose. As I got between Bob and Paul I looked
out
the windshield and there was Liege big as life. What the hell! Were these
guys
pulling my leg? There is no way they couldn't recognize Liege, our join up
point for every mission we flew out of Florennes. I didn't get into the
nose I
just pointed about 20 degrees left and said that way. You'll see the
runway of
about 12 minutes". Paul said, "C'mon Art, stop screwing around. Get in the
nose
and take us home". "That way Paul" I said. "Trust me" Paul shook his head
in
disbelief but did as I directed and sure enough there was the runway in the
ETA
I gave him. When we landed he said, "How the hell did you do that? How did
you
know where we were so fast?" I said, "Are you guys kidding me? That was
Liege
we were over. Don't tell me you can't recognize Liege when you see it?

Both Paul and Bob looked embarrassed. Further conversations revealed the
truth.
Bomber pilots have their eyes glued to the plane they are forming on. Their
total attention is to the formation. They never looked down. The landmarks
which every bombagator knows by heart, is a mystery to most bomber pilots
who
only see the plane they are formed on.

But this incident was good for lots of laughs on flights to come. When we
would cross the Rhine I would say, "hey guys that's the Rhine. And see
those
two big church steeples?, that's Cologne. Remember all that stuff and maybe
you
won't always have to wake me up to take you home".




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

This is a good story and jogs my rapidly failing memory. I spent years
as an instructor and evaluator beating pilots over the head for this
very thing. I once hitched a ride with a B-52 crew from Guam to
Shreveport, Louisiana. Before we got off the ground I had already
decided this was not a crew. It was just six uncoordinated individuals
flying on the same heading. I was disgusted by the lack of leadership
shown by the aircraft commander. All he could do was drive the bus
and toot the horn and he didn't even do that very well. Anyway,
between Guam and Hickam the navigator decided that he was lost and
asked the pilot to call someone and try to get a DF steer. Although it
was a clear day and the pilots had a map, they had never looked at it
because, after all, we were over the great Pacific Ocean -- right? I
did some quick DR in my head and asked for the map. I then told the
pilots to look over the nose of the aircraft and tell me what they
saw. There was Midway showing up as clearly as a diamond in a goat's
ass. We were on time and about two miles right of course. Later that
day I had to get in the copilots seat and complete an air refueling
the pilot could not handle. Several years later when I was at SAC
Headquarters this pilot's name came up for a staff job there. I
vetoed him immediately without reservation.

Gene Myers
Old BUFF pilot



Great post. Loved it. Few realise how many bad pilots are around. And the
first guy on the crew to realise that you've got a lousy pilot is the
bombardier. Just fly a bomb run with a guy and you have his measure
fast.Sounds like your guy had a pick-up crew rather than a team that has flown
together for a while. I had a great pilot. Lt. Col Paul Shorts (Lake Charles
LA). Flew accurate, precise bomb runs. He was a pilot that bombardiers dream
of. I would have voted to give your pilot that staff job. Get him the hell out
of airplanes where he might hurt someone. Interesting post. Got any more? Love
to hear 'em.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:
buf3 wrote:
ArtKramr wrote:

I was surprised to learn that bomber pilots never looked down.

Maybe *your* bomber pilot didn't look down as much as you would have
expected, but even that leaves two obvious questions.

How do you justify extrapolating from one example to "bomber pilots"
in general?

Did you have to call out directions to him on final approach at the
end of each mission?

Later that day I had to get in the copilots seat and complete an
air refueling the pilot could not handle. Several years later
when I was at SAC Headquarters this pilot's name came up for a
staff job there. I vetoed him immediately without reservation.

I would have voted to give your pilot that staff job. Get him the
hell out of airplanes where he might hurt someone.

I guess the wisdom of that would depend on the staff job in question:
after all, guys behind desks have a habit of sending aviators into
harm's way.

Subject: Bomber Pilots Never Look Down
From: Robert Briggs UCKET
Date: 8/13/2004 10:09 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:
buf3 wrote:
ArtKramr wrote:

I was surprised to learn that bomber pilots never looked down.

Maybe *your* bomber pilot didn't look down as much as you would have
expected, but even that leaves two obvious questions.

How do you justify extrapolating from one example to "bomber pilots"
in general?

Did you have to call out directions to him on final approach at the
end of each mission?

Later that day I had to get in the copilots seat and complete an
air refueling the pilot could not handle. Several years later
when I was at SAC Headquarters this pilot's name came up for a
staff job there. I vetoed him immediately without reservation.

I would have voted to give your pilot that staff job. Get him the
hell out of airplanes where he might hurt someone.

I guess the wisdom of that would depend on the staff job in question:
after all, guys behind desks have a habit of sending aviators into
harm's way.


Harm's way is the name of the game.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article ,
(ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Bomber Pilots Never Look Down
From: Robert Briggs UCKET
Date: 8/13/2004 10:09 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:
buf3 wrote:
ArtKramr wrote:

I was surprised to learn that bomber pilots never looked down.

Maybe *your* bomber pilot didn't look down as much as you would have
expected, but even that leaves two obvious questions.

How do you justify extrapolating from one example to "bomber pilots"
in general?

Did you have to call out directions to him on final approach at the
end of each mission?

Later that day I had to get in the copilots seat and complete an
air refueling the pilot could not handle. Several years later
when I was at SAC Headquarters this pilot's name came up for a
staff job there. I vetoed him immediately without reservation.

I would have voted to give your pilot that staff job. Get him the
hell out of airplanes where he might hurt someone.

I guess the wisdom of that would depend on the staff job in question:
after all, guys behind desks have a habit of sending aviators into
harm's way.


Harm's way is the name of the game.


The name of the game is winning, and conserving your resources as best
you can so you can win the next game. Yes, the targeting staff could
just say "hit this target". Even then, and I realize the choices are
much more complex today, someone has to pick the right ordnance so you
don't have to go back.

But it may be staff guys that pick ingress and egress routes that thread
you through gaps in the air defense network. It may be staff guys who
plan deceptive feints to draw defenders away from the true hard target.

It may very well be not-even-rated staff operations research analysts
that figure out the most effective fighter coverage, the best bomb
patterns, etc. The engineers that designed the plane, the weapons, the
navaids, etc., may not even be "staff".

There are warriors that also can do very well with staff assignments --
Jimmy Doolittle was clearly one. People like that are national treasures
-- but so was Kelly Johnson.

Subject: Bomber Pilots Never Look Down
From: Robert Briggs UCKET
Date: 8/13/2004 10:09 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: 411CF5AF.A92C4F07@BITphysi

How do you justify extrapolating from one example to "bomber pilots"
in general?

Easy. All bomber pilots have one thing in common. They fly in formation eyes
fixed on the plane thay are formed on. No chance to look down. At least that is
my esperience, what is your experience?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Robert Briggs wrote:

Maybe *your* bomber pilot didn't look down as much as you would have
expected, but even that leaves two obvious questions.

How do you justify extrapolating from one example to "bomber pilots"
in general?

Did you have to call out directions to him on final approach at the
end of each mission?

After reading this post, I am beginning to see things Art's way.

F---ing wannabees have no clue, just a keyboard and an attitude.


Jack

ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Bomber Pilots Never Look Down
From: Robert Briggs UCKET
Date: 8/13/2004 10:09 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: 411CF5AF.A92C4F07@BITphysi

How do you justify extrapolating from one example to "bomber pilots"
in general?

Easy. All bomber pilots have one thing in common. They fly in formation eyes
fixed on the plane thay are formed on. No chance to look down. At least that is
my esperience, what is your experience?

Arthur Kramer


Might be true for B-26 pilots in the ETO during WWII. But that is a long
way from "All bomber pilots."

Dave