Tost Lilliput brake question

I am trying to improve the brakes on a Libelle 201B. I replaced the shoes and de-glazed the drum recently but not much help.
I trued the drum on a mandrel in a 10" Clausing lathe. I mounted the backing plate and shoes on another mandrel, intending to true the shoes, but got readings that told me the shoes would have to be expanded.
I had no good way to do that without getting excessive clearance. So I just deglazed them.



After installation, I had to max-out the one adjuster in order to get the proper tension on the handbrake.
I noticed a threaded hole in the brake handle, centered on the cable. Looks like a setscrew belongs there for adjusting cable length.

So--here's my question-----What style of setscrew point belongs there? Flat tip, or dog point (extended tip). I presume a cup point would damage the cable.

Thanks in advance for any factual knowledge.

Hartley Falbaum
hfalbaum at comcast dot com

If memory serves me, the Libelle only had an adjustment at the wheel. Guess you could add one at the stick? You may want to move the arm on the brake one spline to make it closer to brake application.
Hope this helps,
JJ

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 8:28:19 AM UTC-4, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
I am trying to improve the brakes on a Libelle 201B. I replaced the shoes and de-glazed the drum recently but not much help.
I trued the drum on a mandrel in a 10" Clausing lathe. I mounted the backing plate and shoes on another mandrel, intending to true the shoes, but got readings that told me the shoes would have to be expanded.
I had no good way to do that without getting excessive clearance. So I just deglazed them.



After installation, I had to max-out the one adjuster in order to get the proper tension on the handbrake.
I noticed a threaded hole in the brake handle, centered on the cable. Looks like a setscrew belongs there for adjusting cable length.

So--here's my question-----What style of setscrew point belongs there? Flat tip, or dog point (extended tip). I presume a cup point would damage the cable.

Thanks in advance for any factual knowledge.

Hartley Falbaum
hfalbaum at comcast dot com

You could also look for a brake shop that does specialize in rebuilding classic car and motorcycle brakes. They can re-line the shoes with a more 'grabby' material and match the brake shoe radius with the diameter of the drum..
When adjusting the cable on the wheel end, make sure that the cable and the arm are at a 90° angle when the linings start to touch the drum. As JJ mentioned, that may require the removal and readjustment of the lever by one or two teeth on the conical spline. Put a common mark on the shaft and the lever so you know where you started out from.
Good luck,

Uli
'AS'

In general you will also find that there is not enough movement in the handle to move the arm far enough to provide adequate braking unless the brake is adjusted to touching the drum at rest. After deglazing, I adjust the cable until there is a light dragging with with the handle in the fully open position. The handle should have almost no movement to provide full braking.

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 7:48:06 AM UTC-7, AS wrote:

You could also look for a brake shop that does specialize in rebuilding classic car and motorcycle brakes.

Uli
'AS'

There are not many places that work on drum brakes any more. The place I had used in Los Angeles is gone.
We used the shop below for a Libelle 201b brake, with fabulous results.
Be careful not to put it over on the nose afterwards!
Vintage get really busy. Best to book it and pay, then send the wheel when they're ready.
But its a bad time of year unless you have a spare wheel.
Jim

Vintage Brake
Michael Morse
15069 Lupine Lane
Sonora, CA
USA
209 533-4346

info AT vintagebrake DOT com
www DOT vintagebrake DOT com

Vintage Brake is great, but I’m thinking your a do it yourself guy. You can “ spike� your shoes, by gluing 40 grit sandpaper to the drum, then actuate the brake and hand spin it around the drum. This will take a while, but eventually the shoes will match your drum. Spiking is the most important thing to get good breaking. As delivered, most shoes only touch one end of one pad, little wonder the breaking action sucks!
Have fun and don’t forget to remove the sandpaper,
JJ

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 8:28:19 AM UTC-4, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
I am trying to improve the brakes on a Libelle 201B. I replaced the shoes and de-glazed the drum recently but not much help.
I trued the drum on a mandrel in a 10" Clausing lathe. I mounted the backing plate and shoes on another mandrel, intending to true the shoes, but got readings that told me the shoes would have to be expanded.
I had no good way to do that without getting excessive clearance. So I just deglazed them.



After installation, I had to max-out the one adjuster in order to get the proper tension on the handbrake.
I noticed a threaded hole in the brake handle, centered on the cable. Looks like a setscrew belongs there for adjusting cable length.

So--here's my question-----What style of setscrew point belongs there? Flat tip, or dog point (extended tip). I presume a cup point would damage the cable.

Thanks in advance for any factual knowledge.

Hartley Falbaum
hfalbaum at comcast dot com

Good suggestion!

The Lilliput brake arm is really hard to change spline alignment due to the coil spring around the base.

But my question was about a possible set screw in the handle to adjust the brake. appears to be M6-1.0.
could be used to adjust cable length, but the screw is missing. The threaded hole is there. Does anyone know for sure about this?

Thanks

No idea if this is original or not but the brake cable setscrew in my Libelle is a flat tip style. I haven't had any issue with the cable getting cut but it does flatten out the cable such that it becomes difficult to reuse a second time should you ever remove it. I have a mid-cable adjuster in addition to the adjuster nuts on the wheel end and it seems to give plenty of adjustment to keep things working well.

Robert

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 12:49:01 PM UTC-5, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 8:28:19 AM UTC-4, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
I am trying to improve the brakes on a Libelle 201B. I replaced the shoes and de-glazed the drum recently but not much help.
I trued the drum on a mandrel in a 10" Clausing lathe. I mounted the backing plate and shoes on another mandrel, intending to true the shoes, but got readings that told me the shoes would have to be expanded.
I had no good way to do that without getting excessive clearance. So I just deglazed them.



After installation, I had to max-out the one adjuster in order to get the proper tension on the handbrake.
I noticed a threaded hole in the brake handle, centered on the cable. Looks like a setscrew belongs there for adjusting cable length.

So--here's my question-----What style of setscrew point belongs there? Flat tip, or dog point (extended tip). I presume a cup point would damage the cable.

Thanks in advance for any factual knowledge.

Hartley Falbaum
hfalbaum at comcast dot com

Good suggestion!

The Lilliput brake arm is really hard to change spline alignment due to the coil spring around the base.

But my question was about a possible set screw in the handle to adjust the brake. appears to be M6-1.0.
could be used to adjust cable length, but the screw is missing. The threaded hole is there. Does anyone know for sure about this?

Thanks

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 8:28:19 AM UTC-4, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
I am trying to improve the brakes on a Libelle 201B. I replaced the shoes and de-glazed the drum recently but not much help.
I trued the drum on a mandrel in a 10" Clausing lathe. I mounted the backing plate and shoes on another mandrel, intending to true the shoes, but got readings that told me the shoes would have to be expanded.
I had no good way to do that without getting excessive clearance. So I just deglazed them.



After installation, I had to max-out the one adjuster in order to get the proper tension on the handbrake.
I noticed a threaded hole in the brake handle, centered on the cable. Looks like a setscrew belongs there for adjusting cable length.

So--here's my question-----What style of setscrew point belongs there? Flat tip, or dog point (extended tip). I presume a cup point would damage the cable.

Thanks in advance for any factual knowledge.

Hartley Falbaum
hfalbaum at comcast dot com


Thanks!

You won't believe this but as good a solution is on eBay for $15.00. Search for EBC 303 Brake shoes. You may need to machine a little to fit drum, but lining material is softer than the $90 Toast replacement. Thus, they don't glaze up as quick. Uncanny in that the cast, springs and other that the brake material are identical.
Still not a perfect solution, but if you are gentle on the brakes you can go a full season.
Enjoy and buy a beer with what you save.
Joe