Supplemental oxygen

I’ll confess. In the last 40 years I normally started my O2 above 12,500. I estimate I have something like 3-4000 hours between 5000-12500 without O2. I never felt a need to start any lower. I must be brain dead by now, which explains a lot
But seriously, each individual is different. Not everyone needs O2 at 5000 feet, or even at 10,000 feet, and it does not make them irresponsible idiots if they don’t stick a cannula in their nose every flight at every altitude.
If I ever crash please don’t blame it on hypoxia.
Just wanted to offer a different perspective.

Ramy

Pilots who live at higher altitudes (Colorado, New Mexico) definitely have an advantage, as they are well acclimated to the thinner air. I remember seeing visitors from low-lying states gasping as they tried to carry their hang gliders on 12,200 ft. Gold Hill at Telluride, while those of us that were more used to it were hauling 100+ lbs. up the last stretch to launch with no significant problem. Of course, we were a lot younger then....

Ramy wrote on 7/24/2019 9:29 PM:
I’ll confess. In the last 40 years I normally started my O2 above 12,500. I estimate I have something like 3-4000 hours between 5000-12500 without O2. I never felt a need to start any lower. I must be brain dead by now, which explains a lot
But seriously, each individual is different. Not everyone needs O2 at 5000 feet, or even at 10,000 feet, and it does not make them irresponsible idiots if they don’t stick a cannula in their nose every flight at every altitude.
If I ever crash please don’t blame it on hypoxia.
Just wanted to offer a different perspective.

....and that's why pilots should check their saturation with an oximeter even lower
than they would normally start using oxygen. People's responses do vary a lot.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

I've got an oximeter in the Stemme but never used it in flight. I'll try
to remember to do that just to see the results.Â* I currently set my MH
regulator to 10K' but, given that I have my own O2 fill capability, it
wouldn't hurt much to lower that to 5K' just to see if I notice any
difference.

Oh, and I've attended USAF altitude chamber training twice while I was
in the AF and am familiar with my hypoxia symptoms.Â* I wonder if they
change with age...Â* And I've experienced a cabin pressure failure at
FL450.Â* Pressure breathing is not much fun!

On 7/25/2019 1:29 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Ramy wrote on 7/24/2019 9:29 PM:
I’ll confess. In the last 40 years I normally started my O2 above
12,500. I estimate I have something like 3-4000 hours between
5000-12500 without O2. I never felt a need to start any lower. I must
be brain dead by now, which explains a lot
But seriously, each individual is different. Not everyone needs O2 at
5000 feet, or even at 10,000 feet, and it does not make them
irresponsible idiots if they don’t stick a cannula in their nose
every flight at every altitude.
If I ever crash please don’t blame it on hypoxia.
Just wanted to offer a different perspective.

...and that's why pilots should check their saturation with an
oximeter even lower than they would normally start using oxygen.
People's responses do vary a lot.



--
Dan, 5J

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 8:59:56 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Everyone needs to read the August 2018 issue of Soaring magazine issue on hypoxia by Dr. Dan Johnson, Jean-Marie Clement, Patrick McLaughlin, & Dr. Heini Schaffner - the idea that anyone would not understand the effects of hypoxia and the cumulative effects of high altitude flying without O2 is scary and incredible. There is ample information available to anyone as to the folly of ignoring lower O2 levels. It will open your eyes as to the need to start O2 at lower altitudes regardless of age. Hypoxia is not an on/off physiological event - the effects are cumulative. And what one person can "get away with" does not mean another person can, or the same person can the next flight - the effects are individual. Incipient hypoxia stars at relatively low altitudes, and impairment at higher altitudes and/or prolonged exposure can be catastrophic. Listen to the recording cited in the August Soaring magazine issue "XC Tips" article by Garret Willat (now posted on the SSA website). PEEP or pursed lip breathing, as John F. points out, is a "now" expedient technique that will temporarily increase O2 levels. If you have to use it, and don't have supplemental O2, you must descend NOW while you still have the ability to do so. The basic recommendation from the Soaring magazine article is to start O2 at 5kft, regardless of fitness level, etc. The o2 is cheap compared to the alternative. And for those who regularly fly at high altitudes (10 kft), of course you have a pulse oximeter along to periodically check your O2 saturation level.

If I have to turn on the oxygen at 5K, I'm going to have to do it in the truck on the way up the hill to the airport. And keep it on the whole time I'm there. Airport is 6K and our takeoff is typically at 9000 ft density and can be 10K. 5K may make sense if you are a retiree living at 20 ft in Florida, but it lacks both practicality and necessity for everyone in every situation.

I will say it again - read the article in Soaring magazine - then comment. Opinions and anecdotes are fine, but I think we would rather bet our lives on actual data. The FAA "guidelines" were set circa WW II and were not based on physiological realities. The article explains the onset of hypoxia, and contains test results on a variety of individuals showing that the FAA regs are severely out of date as to onset altitude. Incipient hypoxia occurs at low altitudes (5-8kft), regardless of age and conditioning. Incipient does not mean disabling, but it is the start of (probably unnoticed by the individual) degradation of performance. The article does not address the question of whether individuals living at high altitudes (my house is at 6400 ft, but I turn on the O2 before taking off from Moriarty at 6200 ft) experience the onset of incipient hypoxia at higher altitudes. The article recommendation is on the side of ensuring sufficient O2 from start to finish of flight by those who have run and documented test results.

jfitch wrote on 7/25/2019 8:31 PM:
On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 8:59:56 PM UTC-7, wrote:


If I have to turn on the oxygen at 5K, I'm going to have to do it in the truck on the way up the hill to the airport. And keep it on the whole time I'm there. Airport is 6K and our takeoff is typically at 9000 ft density and can be 10K. 5K may make sense if you are a retiree living at 20 ft in Florida, but it lacks both practicality and necessity for everyone in every situation.

Don't worry about the density altitude, as your lungs respond to actual pressure,
unlike a carburetor.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

I have a very large oxy bottle and always start oxygen at ground level. Ive noticed a reduction in fatigue and improved concentration.
5000ft might be OK, but I would rather spend a few bucks on oxy and be right at the top of my game all the time.

As someone already stated settings the MH to 5000msl uses negligible amounts of 02 even up to 10,000msl.
The cost is minimal and the benefit for some maybe huge....

I set my O2 to ground level yesterday and the density altitude was above
9,000' when I took off.Â* Still had a ho-hum flight.Â* At least it was
cool at 16,000' MSL.

On 7/29/2019 10:11 PM, Charlie Quebec wrote:
I have a very large oxy bottle and always start oxygen at ground level. Ive noticed a reduction in fatigue and improved concentration.
5000ft might be OK, but I would rather spend a few bucks on oxy and be right at the top of my game all the time.

--
Dan, 5J