10 km's apart

I agree with you Karel.

This is surely a leftover from ancient days. We skipped that rule for
our National redcords and our "Nattional OLC" (which, BTW, has been
running since 1945) many years ago.

At least you can say that there was a purpose in the old days because it
wsa a sport in itself to find two tutnpoints close together but still 10
km apart. Not so easy to find in a forrested country like Sweden. Today
with the GPS loggers you can calculate 2 TP:s with that are exactly 10
km apart........ so there is no sport in it any more. KISS!!!

When Ray Lynskey flew the first 2000K flight it was not recognized as a
world record, so consequently the SC was changed the following year to
allow 3 TP courses.

Ronalds flight is quite an achievement so why not use it as an argument
for a proposal to the IGC for the 2005 meeting? We will support it!

Robert Danewid
Sweden

K.P. Termaat wrote:
Hello Ian,

Thanks for your extensive reply. Quite happy with that.
I have sent you a personal reply with some more details.
For the discussion on ras let me reply in short again.

The OO ruined a 1000 km FAI badge just a week ago being unaware of the 10
km FAI requirement. Or may be FAI did that.

The flight in question was:
Starting point ST
1st turnpoint A (leg of 99 km to the NE)
2nd turnpoint B (leg of 403 km to the S)
3rd turnpoint A (leg of 403 km to the N)
Finishpoint FP (leg of 99 km to the SW)

So a distance flight using up to three turnpoints. Total length 1004.3 km.
An excellent performance flown one would say. Not to FAI however. FAI
considers the return to A as a "jojo" after having flown more then 800 km to
and back from B. So no 1000 km FAI badge.

Of course the flight fullfils our national rules for a 1-3 tp free flight
and the pilot will receive a 1000 km badge from our National Gliding
Organisation for his outstanding performance.

To prevent "jojo-ing" between two waypoints of a 1-3 tp flight we have in
our national rule the simple statement "Each visit to a turnpoint increases
the number by one". Prevents "jojo-ing" and does not destroy an excellent
performance as the one described.

Of cource the popular OLC recognises this flight also. Maximises the
distance flown to 1012.2 km using 4 turnpoints (see OLC site).

Best regards

Karel NL

"Ian Strachan" schreef in bericht
...

In article , K.P. Termaat
writes

For a distance flight using up to three turn points the Sporting Code

says

at 1.4.5.b. : "The turn points must be at least 10 kilometers apart and

may

be claimed once, etc."

Why "10 km", why "once". Does anybody know.

It was an arbitrary distance decided on by Tor Johannessen when he was
in charge of Sporting Code rules some years ago. The intention was to
prevent repeat use of a particular turn point. I was Sporting Code
editor (under Tor) at that time and argued against it, but did not
prevail.

After all, it is for a distance rather than a goal flight and I would
have though that if the required distance can be proved, that should be
sufficient. And even for a goal flight, what is wrong with a repeat
turn point as long as it is in the pre-flight declaration and the
geometry of the course is correct for the type of flight concerned?

However, I think that it is right that some rule prevents the use of
lots of repeat legs, or even lots of legs, in wave or ridge lift. That
was the purpose of the "up to three turn points".

Any figure, 10km or other, is arbitrary. A slight error, say 9.9 km
would lead to the whole flight being rejected whereas 10.1 km would be
OK. As you say, Karel, "why?"

Particularly now that free (no pre-flight turn point declaration) flying
for various distance records is allowed, perhaps the whole matter of
distance and goal definitions should be looked at again by IGC. For
instance, where "distance" is the criteria rather than "goal", why do
not free flight rules apply? And for free flights where waypoints can
be selected by the pilot after flight, why is a pre-flight declaration
needed at all?

Just a couple of "stones into the millpond" .........

--
Ian Strachan
Lasham Gliding Centre, UK

Bentworth Hall West
Tel: +44 1420 564 195 Bentworth, Alton
Fax: +44 1420 563 140 Hampshire GU34 5LA, ENGLAND