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![]() I think the statisticians would say that you are running into the "rule of small numbers"; ie. with such a small sample it's hard to make any reliable generalizations. To put it a different way, how many pilots are capable of winning a nationals at any given contest (leaving aside ships for a minute)? Realistically, maybe 1/3 of the competitors are truly national caliber; the others are there to prop up the bottom of the scoresheet. I'm sure others would argue that the number of potential champions is lower . So, let's say that there are 10 folks on average in a SC nationals who have the potential to win. So, the unadjusted probability is 10% that someone like Manfred will win under this scenario. Now, throw in the fact that certain guys seem to win contests again and again (I'll use Gary Ittner as an example in the 15M, flying his "old" Ventus C against all of the new ASW-27s and V2s as a for instance). So, the probability for the "rest of us" is really pretty small. The fact that 2 true Club Class ships have won in the last 10 years means that they are statistically over-represented and the handicaps need to be revised in favor of the more modern ships :-)))) Well, as my Mammy used to say, "Be careful what you wish for, cuz you just might git it!". I was hoping that my rabble-rousing would generate some thoughtful discussion, and apparently I'm getting my wish! ;-). Yes, I agree that my data base is woefully small. However, more than about 10 years of data kinda defeats the purpose of the argument anyway, as the gliders and the pilots will have evolved significantly over that time . Actually it was just this paucity of data that caused me to focus on HF as the poster child for SC (my apologies to Manfred), as this is the clearest case I can see where a very good pilot in an SC ship has difficulty competing against very good pilots in ASW-XXs (where X is greater than 20 or so). BTW, regarding the probabilities you mentioned, it would seem that if Manfred's per-contest probability was on the order of 0.1 and he competed in more than 5 or 6 nats, he should have (in the sense that anything over 0.5 is 'likely') won one by now. Seriously, I think a couple of other posts all alluded to the fact that there are some good reasons why the current handicap system in the US is a compromise. If you really want to get under the numbers, create a simple model in a spreadsheet. Under average Eastern conditions (say a course of 150 miles with 300fpm average lift), you can calculate the time to climb and the time to cruise using the published polars. The 7% handicap (actually more like 7.5%) the LS3 has over the ASW-27 is VERY significant. However, get the cruise speeds up with either ridges or strong thermals, and the newer gliders have an advantage. I have a basic problem with the above modeling approach, and that is that I find it difficult to believe that a 25 year old glider can still achieve its published polar (assuming it ever did), no matter how well prepared. I borrow from my power background, where aircraft performance numbers are routinely inflated by the manufacturers and are just as routinely missed by the actual aircraft. However, newer aircraft do come closer than older ones, pretty much regardless of type. Having said that, I really don't know if Manfred's LS-3 can still achieve its numbers (maybe it even exceeds them now!). I thought the South African model described earlier is interesting, as it tries to use the actual results to deterimine the day's handicap. On the other hand, some folks will find it difficult to accept that the results are adjusted so dynamically... Ah, the handicapped bowling league approach. I actually think this might be a viable approach, in that it tends to make it easier for a newcomer to do well (but, maybe this is yet another thing I should be careful about wishing for...) As far as the LS-3 swap, I'll take a different tack. I'll see what I can do to line up an LS-4 to go head-to-head with you. Loser each day buys the beer :-)) Oops! You have clearly mistaken me for someone willing to put his glider (or at least his beer) where his mouth is! ;-). However, given the fact that I will almost certainly never be able to afford anything better, and that I do plan to fly it in our SC Nats next year - bring it on! ;-)))) Frank (X3) |
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