A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

TPAS and Transponder - Blind Spot



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #9  
Old March 15th 07, 01:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,096
Default TPAS and Transponder - Blind Spot

jcarlyle wrote:
A few days ago, Bumper mentioned his TPAS "went deaf" in his
transponder equipped glider while flying near other transponders. Jim
S asked about the blanking distance, and Eric Greenwell found in the
manual for the Zaon MRX that this was about 0.4 miles.


Not quite: 0.4 mi
Now consider the other transponder being farther away from ATC than
you, on the line that connects you and ATC. Your transponder fires
first and blanks the ZAON. The ATC pulse has to propagate to him for
his transponder to fire, then his transponder pulse has to propagate
back to you to be detected by the ZAON. The net result is that he can
be as close as 0.2 nm for you to detect him.

Now suppose the other transponder is between you and ATC, on the line
that connects you and ATC. Guess what? You'll never detect him! The
ATC pulse reaches him first, firing his transponder, and both pulses
reach your ship at essentially the same time. Your transponder then
fires, blanking the ZAON. By the time it unblanks, his pulse and your
pulse have propagated far beyond the ZAON antenna - they aren't around
for detection.


John's analysis seemed plausible, so I contacted Zaon about it.
Summarizing a fairly technical reply:

"The situation described can produce a dead zone. Generally it is not a
problem in practice, because there are many other interrogation sources
(mainly other ATC radars and TCAS systems) that interrogate transponders
besides the ATC radar in line with your glider and the other aircraft.
These replies will not be masked, so range and altitude can be
determined by the MRX."

I'd add that it's unlikely an aircraft could stay directly between you
and the ATC radar for very long. If it was climbing, you'd have to climb
even faster, and vice versa. If it was coming straight out from the
radar, you'd have to be flying directly towards or away on the sloped
line going to or from the radar, and so on.

So, it's an event with a low probability in the first place, and a high
probability of mitigation by interrogations from other sources. Further,
if it's an airliner, it has TCAS (he'll see you, you'll see him); if
it's a GA aircraft, it might be in contact with ATC and warned of your
presence, or it might have a PCAS unit and detect your transponder; and
finally, you might visually detect each other! My opinion: the dead zone
risk is insignificant.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Monroy ADT-200 TPAS Ramy Yanetz Soaring 6 May 10th 05 09:58 AM
TPAS experiences - good, bad, and ugly Eric Greenwell Soaring 1 January 19th 05 09:49 PM
Blind 430 john smith Owning 16 January 4th 05 07:57 PM
FS : TPAS Sure Check model RX-110 Brian Aviation Marketplace 0 September 16th 04 03:21 PM
Surecheck TPAS (was Proxalert R?) Tim Mara Soaring 0 February 10th 04 07:19 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.