The rudder waggle signal does not work

On Jul 25, 4:12*pm, Ramy wrote:
On Jul 25, 4:58*am, "





wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:16*pm, guy wrote:

Time to get real and standardize what we are doing in the aviation
community.
Radios. *Person to person communication. *Not perfect but a heck of a
lot better than some pilot trying to decide what the tow plane is
doing.
Radios. *Transponders. *Flarm if you want to add one more layer but
NOT a substitution for a transponder.
That is my take.
Flying is expensive. *Get over it. *Buy the equipment. *Batteries are
no longer an excuse.
We are not hang gliders jumping off some cliff.
We are sharing a crowded and complex airspace and airport with all
kinds of traffic.

Guy...

Last time I looked they were called "Standard American Soaring
Signals"

I can think of nothing more standard.......I was taught the "check
spoiler signal"....I teach the "check spoiler signal"

Every tow pilot I ever dealt with knows the check spoiler
signal......I teach every one of my students the check spoiler
signal.....This weekend I went to two gliderports and asked every
pilot and every tow pilot either what does the rudder waggle during
tow mean, or what is the signal for check spoiler?......every single
guy got it right.....This IS THE standard....

There is nothing more standard than this signal!!!

Now let's add the fact that this is one of the "your life may depend
on this signal" signals....It becomes even easier to remember....

Now tell me how you're gonna standardize radio? * Who's going to
inspect each installation and how often? *Who's going to insure fully
charged batteries? *Who is going to insure proper volume setting, and
squelch setting? *(in both aircraft?)

*Tell me exactly what would be the "standard" phraseology for each
possible emergency scenario?

Tell me exaclty, How do I know which tow plane pilot is talking to
which glider pilot ? *(many operations have several tow going on at
the same time....

I can imagine hearing over the radio....."release, release, release!"
and having 4 glider release at the same time and all try to land back
at the field!

Or maybe this scenario....

Glider, ASW 20, (I think) *N 234 BC) or is it 345?......anyway....the
glider being towed by the red pawnee....you know N
789F......Yeah...you......anyway....I do have an important safety
message for you....

OK this is glider BC.....Towplane go ahead....

Roger this is towplane....You are about to die! * Over....

Cookie

Cookie, I just hope you teach your tow pilots to climb to a safe
altitude if possible before giving a rudder wag . If not, please let
us know where you tow so we can avoid towing there.

Ramy- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

First of all, I don't teach tow pilots....I teach people to become
glider pilots...

But...every tow pilot I have ever spoken to says that they will avoid
giving the rudder wag as long as they are climbing (somewhat)...at
least to a reasonable altitude......

I also know that most tow pilots will avoid giving the wing rock at
low altitude unless absolutely necessary.....

I know one incident where a tow pilot got low oil pressure right after
take off, but continued to about 1000' above the ground before waving
off the glider......glider and tow plane landed safely...but engine
was a write off......

Better a blown engine than bad accident....

This is all really common sense stuff....

But this is not the point..........the point is that "radio" is no
better than "rudder waggle" to convey a simple message...which is
"close the spoilers"........In fact the rudder waggle IS the
standard. In fact the radio adds a whole new layer of complexity and
failure points, compared the the signals we all were taught and should
know well....

The responsibility to know and understand signals is that of the PIC
in the glider........

It makes people "feel good" to go throught the "if only"
scenarios........"if only he had a two way radio they would be alive
today"......"If only the FAA would do something about this" If only
the SSA would do something. blah blah blah

See this puts the blame beyond the pilot.......

Sorry....if you want to play "if only"......I say...If only he did a
pre flight, and a pre take off check list...if only he kept his hand
near or on the spoiler handle....if only he recognised the poor climb
rate......if onloy he knew and understood an emergency plan...If ony
he knew what a simple standard signal meant??

yes we a human....yes we all make mistakes......this is why in aiation
we rely on written checklists......this is why we developed emercency
plans of action...this is why we have emergency signals......

If you don't lock the spoilers on preflights.....and don't lock them
on pre take off checks, and dont realize they are open during
tow.....then you get the "reminder"...the rudder waggle.....

If you make more mistakes than that...well you are in the wrong
sport..

Cookie