Is the 200ft below Min Finish Height Rule Working?

On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:35:15 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:48:44 AM UTC-5, Sean F (F2) wrote:

2000 ft is a little high ;-), but (based on the discussion within this thread) we definitely need to consider moving MFH and any hard deck up to just above a mutually agreed "safe circling altitude." This minimum acceptable safe circling altitude is the key. I think we all agree that any finish height rule is absolutely going to cause a certain subset of pilots to instinctively try and save their points just outside the distance barrier and just below the penalty altitude. 1200 feet AGL is probably the right MFH (with graduated penalties down to 1000 AGL) as a stall spin is PROBABLY recoverable from 800 - 900 feet in most gliders. This is where the gliders "caught" by this rule will be "doing their dance!" At 18 meter nationals last summer (due to the nature of the finishes and the lack of acceptable landing options surrounding the airfield) the MFH was moved up mid contest. There was luke warm debate although the CD managed the discussion very eloquently. Ultimately, a vote was taken and the result was in favor of raising the MFH.. I think it was moved from 700 to 800 AGL. It might have been higher. I do not remember. 1200 ft, is only 400 above 18m Nationals last summer. Clearly, it offers a greater cushion should the unthinkable happen and someone spins... Of course, the other alternative is simply to remove this rule altogether and just allow the pilots to make their own choices. It is a quite a pickle... Personally, I am open to both options. What I don't really like is the current rule which results in gliders circling below 700 ft and in some cases below 500 just prior to arrival at the finish location. Sean F2 On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 9:18:32 AM UTC-5, Andrew Brayer wrote: Could we please just raise the finish height to 2000 feet and get it over with? i'll just do contest style finishes when i'm not at contests. having made my sarcastic remark, I do appreciate the efforts to make this sport safer. the problem is you cannot prevent accidents universally, this is aviation and racing combined. Instead we need to encourage pilots to make safe decisions rather than trying to protect everyone by implementing rules. my two cents.



I've flown a few contests, something more than 30, since the finish cylinder, in various forms, has been in place. I have never seen anyone trying to circle up to finish height. Obviously there may be a few cases where this happens. My view is that it makes little sense to try to solve issues that occur quite rarely.

Other considerations should include the likely actions after finishing. When one finishes at about 700 feet, the height is about right to enter the pattern and we can expect most pilots to do so pretty mich immediately. We then know where to expect the other traffic to be and recovery is usually orderly.

Raise the height by several hundred feet and now everyone will need to work out a path to get down to pattern height. This introduces another factor we all have to cope with as different pilots do their own way of letting down and entering the pattern.

With the commonly used 700 foot finish, I almost always position myself when finishing so I can directly enter the pattern and land. I note that most others do the same thing. I think it works pretty well.

Also worth noting is that tactically it almost never makes sense to try to circle up to try to reduce the penalty for finishing a bit below the finish height. At about 5 pts/ minute in Nationals(8/minute in regioals),the time used pretty quickly offsets the 40 points lost for a 200 foot low arrival.

UH

I am with UH on this(very rarely he will add!). But the 2 rules(below)cover almost all these discussed issues.(same for Regionals & Nationals).

10.9.1.4 Pilots must pay particular attention to safety during the process of finishing, landing, and rolling to a stop. A pilot whose
finish, pattern, landing, or rollout is deemed unsafe by the CD is subject to a penalty for unsafe operation (Rule 12.2.5.1).

10.9.2.2.1 ‡ Each task shall include a Minimum Finish Height (MFH), set by the CD at least high enough that pilots who obtain
a valid finish can return to the home airfield for a normal pattern and landing.

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