trailer sway mitigation TSM

Don Johnstone wrote on 12/23/2019 1:36 AM:

What is worth remembering is that the cause of the sway is
aerodynamic. Loading, tyre pressure, fiction dampers can only
ensure that the sway is damped out and does not increase. Trailers
with less vertical surface area aft of the wheels suffer less from
snaking than those with equal or greater vertical surface area behind
the wheels. You may not be able to change the aerodynamics of the
trailer but a good friction damper and proper loading will normally
ensure that the snaking is damped.
I have been a passenger in a car towing a Cobra trailer at over
100mph, scared the crap out of me but it was completely stable, but
only when loaded with the glider. Empty it was a different story.

How did you decide aerodynamics was the important factor, and not other factors
like tongue length, tires, etc? That's counterintuitive and, for example, it's at
significant variance with Nelson Funston's paper on towing glider trailers, which
does not include aerodynamic factors.

http://journals.sfu.ca/ts/index.php/...wnload/779/737

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

At 15:35 23 December 2019, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Don Johnstone wrote on 12/23/2019 1:36 AM:

What is worth remembering is that the cause of the sway is
aerodynamic. Loading, tyre pressure, fiction dampers can only
ensure that the sway is damped out and does not increase.
Trailers
with less vertical surface area aft of the wheels suffer less from
snaking than those with equal or greater vertical surface area
behind
the wheels. You may not be able to change the aerodynamics of
the
trailer but a good friction damper and proper loading will
normally
ensure that the snaking is damped.
I have been a passenger in a car towing a Cobra trailer at over
100mph, scared the crap out of me but it was completely stable,
but
only when loaded with the glider. Empty it was a different story.

How did you decide aerodynamics was the important factor, and
not other
factors
like tongue length, tires, etc? That's counterintuitive and, for
example,
it's at
significant variance with Nelson Funston's paper on towing glider
trailers,
which
does not include aerodynamic factors.

http://journals.sfu.ca/ts/index.php/...wnload/779/737

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us"
to email
me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ions/download-
the-guide-1

From observation of driving trailers over many years. Aerodynamic
forces are almost always the initial cause of the onset of snaking,
the other factors take over in damping out, or increasing the initial
disturbance. I can be towing at say 60mph in clear air. If I am
overtaken, especially by a large vehicle I fist notice that as the
vehicle is alongside the trailer is drawn towards the other vehicle,
when the vehicle has passed the trailer moves away and this is
where the snake starts. From that point on the other mentioned
factors take over, which, almost without exception, we all use
stabilisers, mostly ALKO type

Don Johnstone wrote on 12/24/2019 2:20 AM:
At 15:35 23 December 2019, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Don Johnstone wrote on 12/23/2019 1:36 AM:

What is worth remembering is that the cause of the sway is
aerodynamic. Loading, tyre pressure, fiction dampers can only
ensure that the sway is damped out and does not increase.
Trailers
with less vertical surface area aft of the wheels suffer less from
snaking than those with equal or greater vertical surface area
behind
the wheels. You may not be able to change the aerodynamics of
the
trailer but a good friction damper and proper loading will
normally
ensure that the snaking is damped.
I have been a passenger in a car towing a Cobra trailer at over
100mph, scared the crap out of me but it was completely stable,
but
only when loaded with the glider. Empty it was a different story.

How did you decide aerodynamics was the important factor, and
not other
factors
like tongue length, tires, etc? That's counterintuitive and, for
example,
it's at
significant variance with Nelson Funston's paper on towing glider
trailers,
which
does not include aerodynamic factors.

http://journals.sfu.ca/ts/index.php/...wnload/779/737


From observation of driving trailers over many years. Aerodynamic
forces are almost always the initial cause of the onset of snaking,
the other factors take over in damping out, or increasing the initial
disturbance. I can be towing at say 60mph in clear air. If I am
overtaken, especially by a large vehicle I fist notice that as the
vehicle is alongside the trailer is drawn towards the other vehicle,
when the vehicle has passed the trailer moves away and this is
where the snake starts. From that point on the other mentioned
factors take over, which, almost without exception, we all use
stabilisers, mostly ALKO type

As you state, swaying typically starts with a "trigger" event, and crosswinds or
large trucks are common triggers; however, it can also be a twitch on the steering
wheel from inattention, dodging road debris, moving away from another vehicle
drifting too close beside you, uneven road surfaces, higher speeds while passing
another vehicle, etc. The trigger is not important, but the trailer's inherent
stability is.

On the other hand, there are reports of trailer aerodynamics directly affecting
the trailer stability. The two I know about were both the older Komet style
trailers with "doghouses" or "tail fins" that were airfoil shaped like vertical
stabilizers without the rudder. Both owners reported significant reduction in
swaying by putting "spoilers" near the leading edge on each side of the fin. The
spoilers were about 1/2" high and a few inches back from the leading edge. The now
common Cobra trailers have blunt leading edges and flat, truncated trailing edges
that apparently don't produce the lift the Komet fins did.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 12:42:14 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Check out this technical paper (https://purehost.bath.ac.uk/ws/porta...2/JAUTO981.pdf)

This paper uses a model trailer with negligible aerodynamic characteristics.
Caravans have enormous side areas, glider trailers usually less but with rear fins.
So this paper is missing a rather important contributor to sway, which is the
aero force accelerating the trailer back to center.

Some glider owners have had good results reducing sway by fitting spoilers
on the fin.

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 9:48:13 AM UTC-6, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 12:42:14 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Check out this technical paper (https://purehost.bath.ac.uk/ws/porta...2/JAUTO981.pdf)

This paper uses a model trailer with negligible aerodynamic characteristics.
Caravans have enormous side areas, glider trailers usually less but with rear fins.
So this paper is missing a rather important contributor to sway, which is the
aero force accelerating the trailer back to center.

Some glider owners have had good results reducing sway by fitting spoilers
on the fin.

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

First of all, I'm an applied aerodynamicist who has designed wings for transonic business jets, so I do appreciate aerodynamics. However, when a trailer is swaying violently from side to side and the driver is trying to hold the steering wheel firm, aerodynamics is not the issue; it is the inertia of the system. An aerodynamic impulse from a gust or passing truck can start the oscillation, but once going, the aerodynamics are secondary.

For regular operation at a safe margin below the critical towing speed, adding fins or removing sharp corners from the front of the trailer box may make the rig less twitchy, for instance less susceptible to irritating behavior in a sustained crosswind. My large aluminum box for the two-place, wood gliders is an excellent example of what not to do. It has sharp, swept corners up front that I am sure shed very nice sets of vortices that tend to impart a nice cyclic wiggle to the back end of the trailer. I've thought about putting a fin or two aft to help keep it pointed straight. But this is a low amplitude effect and never becomes a problem.

What I am concerned about is behavior that could impact the safety of the rig. This is the lightly damped oscillation of a trailer near the critical towing speed. Once I get to that level, it is more like an undamped pendulum problem than an aerodynamic one.

Tow safe so you can fly safe,

...... Neal

wrote on 12/23/2019 8:13 AM:
On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 9:48:13 AM UTC-6, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 12:42:14 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Check out this technical paper (https://purehost.bath.ac.uk/ws/porta...2/JAUTO981.pdf)

This paper uses a model trailer with negligible aerodynamic characteristics.
Caravans have enormous side areas, glider trailers usually less but with rear fins.
So this paper is missing a rather important contributor to sway, which is the
aero force accelerating the trailer back to center.

Some glider owners have had good results reducing sway by fitting spoilers
on the fin.

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

First of all, I'm an applied aerodynamicist who has designed wings for transonic business jets, so I do appreciate aerodynamics. However, when a trailer is swaying violently from side to side and the driver is trying to hold the steering wheel firm, aerodynamics is not the issue; it is the inertia of the system. An aerodynamic impulse from a gust or passing truck can start the oscillation, but once going, the aerodynamics are secondary.

For regular operation at a safe margin below the critical towing speed, adding fins or removing sharp corners from the front of the trailer box may make the rig less twitchy, for instance less susceptible to irritating behavior in a sustained crosswind. My large aluminum box for the two-place, wood gliders is an excellent example of what not to do. It has sharp, swept corners up front that I am sure shed very nice sets of vortices that tend to impart a nice cyclic wiggle to the back end of the trailer. I've thought about putting a fin or two aft to help keep it pointed straight. But this is a low amplitude effect and never becomes a problem.

What I am concerned about is behavior that could impact the safety of the rig. This is the lightly damped oscillation of a trailer near the critical towing speed. Once I get to that level, it is more like an undamped pendulum problem than an aerodynamic one.

So you meant that aerodynamics of the trailer can trigger the swaying motion, but
the motion itself depends on tires, tongue length, etc?


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 12:16:38 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 12/23/2019 8:13 AM:
On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 9:48:13 AM UTC-6, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 12:42:14 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Check out this technical paper (https://purehost.bath.ac.uk/ws/porta...2/JAUTO981.pdf)

This paper uses a model trailer with negligible aerodynamic characteristics.
Caravans have enormous side areas, glider trailers usually less but with rear fins.
So this paper is missing a rather important contributor to sway, which is the
aero force accelerating the trailer back to center.

Some glider owners have had good results reducing sway by fitting spoilers
on the fin.

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

First of all, I'm an applied aerodynamicist who has designed wings for transonic business jets, so I do appreciate aerodynamics. However, when a trailer is swaying violently from side to side and the driver is trying to hold the steering wheel firm, aerodynamics is not the issue; it is the inertia of the system. An aerodynamic impulse from a gust or passing truck can start the oscillation, but once going, the aerodynamics are secondary.

For regular operation at a safe margin below the critical towing speed, adding fins or removing sharp corners from the front of the trailer box may make the rig less twitchy, for instance less susceptible to irritating behavior in a sustained crosswind. My large aluminum box for the two-place, wood gliders is an excellent example of what not to do. It has sharp, swept corners up front that I am sure shed very nice sets of vortices that tend to impart a nice cyclic wiggle to the back end of the trailer. I've thought about putting a fin or two aft to help keep it pointed straight. But this is a low amplitude effect and never becomes a problem.

What I am concerned about is behavior that could impact the safety of the rig. This is the lightly damped oscillation of a trailer near the critical towing speed. Once I get to that level, it is more like an undamped pendulum problem than an aerodynamic one.

So you meant that aerodynamics of the trailer can trigger the swaying motion, but
the motion itself depends on tires, tongue length, etc?


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Pretty much. For the case is of most interest to us for safety, violent oscillation, I would be most concerned with:
1) loading the trailer to get a relatively low yaw inertia (high damping ratio)
2) adjusting the axle placement and tongue length (within practical constraints)
3) keeping the tires inflated to a good level (measured, not by eye)

Since most people are not mechanics / trailer builders, items 1 and 3 are most important.

This radial vs bias ply tire discussion has caught me off guard.
I always in the past read bias ply was the way to go on trailers, due to stiffer sidewalls.
Maybe not...
I've got 2 new bias ply tires on my Cobra now, they seem to do OK, I typically cruise 75-80, on the straights, out west with that thing using a F150 or full size GMC van.

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 7:11:41 AM UTC-8, Nick Kennedy wrote:
This radial vs bias ply tire discussion has caught me off guard.
I always in the past read bias ply was the way to go on trailers, due to stiffer sidewalls.
Maybe not...
I've got 2 new bias ply tires on my Cobra now, they seem to do OK, I typically cruise 75-80, on the straights, out west with that thing using a F150 or full size GMC van.

You better check the speed rating on those tires; most ST tires are limited to 65.

Tom