Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)

I always find it interesting that the students pay (1) Initiation Dues (2) Annual Dues (3) Glider rental (4) Tow fees and then the club wants to give away the CFI (and the tow pilot) training costs. I guess the CFI-G really isn't worth that much (but then, try showing up for a check ride with no CFI logbook endorsements and see how far you get).

CFI's have REAL expenses for all that free stuff the club wants to give away. e.g. Travel expenses to the airport (not insignificant in some cases); FIRC; Liability insurance; Lost opportunity to fly their own ship (if they own one); Payment of club dues like every other member.

I am not advocating "market" rates for your local CFI-G but some compensation is certainly warranted.

Todd
CFI-G
exp JUL-2022

On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 10:27:22 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Volunteer Tow-pilots and CFIG wanted to join Sandhill Soaring Club, a 501(c)(3) not profit gliding club located in Gregory, Michigan, about 30 mins from Ann Arbor, Lansing, and western portions of Greater Metro Detroit.

Fleet: (1) SGS-233; (1) ASK-13; (2) Grob 103 Twin II; (1) DG-505; (1) Open Cirrus; (1) Std. Cirrus; (1) Scheibe SF-25C Motorglider; (1) Piper Pawnee towplane; (1) L-19 Bird Dog towplane (Cessna 305A); (1) Winch

Note About the Fleet: Competent pilot-members may rent club aircraft for use at camps, glider club fly-ins, and SSA Sanctioned Regional and National Contests.

Non-refundable Initiation Fee: $500
Monthly dues for CFIG and Tow-Pilot Specialist Members: $22.50/month

Standard Tow Rate (2,000' AGL): $22

Glider Rates vary from $20-50/hr; see: https://www.sandhillsoaring.org/dues-fees

Website: www.sandhillsoaring.org

For more information, Contact Chris Schrader at (612) 210-5524
I usually don't post to chat boards but in this case I will - apologies if this is a repeat-- I started flying gliders at Schweizer Soaring school, Elmira, NY circa 1965, fell in love with the sport, after a three hiatus returned to the States and joined HHSC Harris Hill Soaring Corporation. There was an established monthly duty roaster according to member qualifications. The Junior members were in charge on their own group with adult supervision - instructions was for free, club owned sailplanes had minimal fees. Income was generated primarily from tourist income. I worked my way up the ranks to become a CFIG the payback by instructing for free. We all pitched in where we could -- I have been out of soaring for decades- age and health but -- ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS GONE?

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:34:29 PM UTC-4, joel!!!!@yahoo,com wrote:
ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS GONE?

Good old days are still here. I instruct & tow for free, just like you (and many others) did for me. Thanks Joel.

Evan Ludeman
Post Mills Soaring Club

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:34:29 PM UTC-4, joel!!!!@yahoo,com wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 10:27:22 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Volunteer Tow-pilots and CFIG wanted to join Sandhill Soaring Club, a 501(c)(3) not profit gliding club located in Gregory, Michigan, about 30 mins from Ann Arbor, Lansing, and western portions of Greater Metro Detroit.

Fleet: (1) SGS-233; (1) ASK-13; (2) Grob 103 Twin II; (1) DG-505; (1) Open Cirrus; (1) Std. Cirrus; (1) Scheibe SF-25C Motorglider; (1) Piper Pawnee towplane; (1) L-19 Bird Dog towplane (Cessna 305A); (1) Winch

Note About the Fleet: Competent pilot-members may rent club aircraft for use at camps, glider club fly-ins, and SSA Sanctioned Regional and National Contests.

Non-refundable Initiation Fee: $500
Monthly dues for CFIG and Tow-Pilot Specialist Members: $22.50/month

Standard Tow Rate (2,000' AGL): $22

Glider Rates vary from $20-50/hr; see: https://www.sandhillsoaring.org/dues-fees

Website: www.sandhillsoaring.org

For more information, Contact Chris Schrader at (612) 210-5524
I usually don't post to chat boards but in this case I will - apologies if this is a repeat-- I started flying gliders at Schweizer Soaring school, Elmira, NY circa 1965, fell in love with the sport, after a three hiatus returned to the States and joined HHSC Harris Hill Soaring Corporation. There was an established monthly duty roaster according to member qualifications.. The Junior members were in charge on their own group with adult supervision - instructions was for free, club owned sailplanes had minimal fees. Income was generated primarily from tourist income. I worked my way up the ranks to become a CFIG the payback by instructing for free. We all pitched in where we could -- I have been out of soaring for decades- age and health but -- ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS GONE?

Joel, THANK YOU! Looking back at my early years we had truly professional instructors and tow pilots. Paul Crowell, aka Pablo was our go to tow pilot and Bill Harris was our instructor, and they never charges a penny, and yes, they were as professional as you could find.
Recently I made it possible for a young man to get his tail wheel endorsement, tow endorsement and his CFIG. It was satisfying to me and my wife, who also enjoys flying gliders to be able to provide something for someone who could not afford to do so himself. Every weekend this young individual is at the glider club either jumping in the Pawnee to tow or giving free instruction for our members. The good days are not gone !

On 7/15/2020 10:34 AM, joel!!!!@yahoo,com wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 10:27:22 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Volunteer Tow-pilots and CFIG wanted to join Sandhill Soaring Club, a
501(c)(3) not profit gliding club located in Gregory, Michigan, about 30
mins from Ann Arbor, Lansing, and western portions of Greater Metro
Detroit.

Fleet: (1) SGS-233; (1) ASK-13; (2) Grob 103 Twin II; (1) DG-505; (1)
Open Cirrus; (1) Std. Cirrus; (1) Scheibe SF-25C Motorglider; (1) Piper
Pawnee towplane; (1) L-19 Bird Dog towplane (Cessna 305A); (1) Winch

Note About the Fleet: Competent pilot-members may rent club aircraft for
use at camps, glider club fly-ins, and SSA Sanctioned Regional and
National Contests.

Non-refundable Initiation Fee: $500 Monthly dues for CFIG and Tow-Pilot
Specialist Members: $22.50/month

Standard Tow Rate (2,000' AGL): $22

Glider Rates vary from $20-50/hr; see:
https://www.sandhillsoaring.org/dues-fees

Website: www.sandhillsoaring.org

For more information, Contact Chris Schrader at (612) 210-5524
I usually don't post to chat boards but in this case I will - apologies if
this is a repeat-- I started flying gliders at Schweizer Soaring school,
Elmira, NY circa 1965, fell in love with the sport, after a three hiatus
returned to the States and joined HHSC Harris Hill Soaring Corporation.
There was an established monthly duty roaster according to member
qualifications. The Junior members were in charge on their own group with
adult supervision - instructions was for free, club owned sailplanes had
minimal fees. Income was generated primarily from tourist income. I worked
my way up the ranks to become a CFIG the payback by instructing for free.
We all pitched in where we could -- I have been out of soaring for decades-
age and health but -- ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS GONE?

My short-form take is, "Yes!" (They are gone. Time moves on. Things change.
Etc. As to "Why?", everyone has their list.) That said: I received my
instruction free; it's still available in some (percentagely preponderant?)
clubs; I'm glad it is!

With "the obligatory - and in this instance, regretful (as opposed to
unapologetic!) - head-nod" toward contributing to thread-drift, I'll throw in
my overview on what IMO is "a somewhat religious topic" within the soaring
community...i.e. one's view is "faith-based."

FWIW...

There seems to be two schools of thought regarding the question: Should club
instructors provide their services for free, or be allowed to "charge for
professional services rendered"? Both have already been put forth in this thread:

- The "Should be free/Give-backers" school, and;
- To not allow "professionals to charge professionally" is: an insult; taking
advantage of them; puts the future of the club at risk; etc.

IMO, there ain't no resolving the difference in opinions - they just are.

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

It is interesting that Tow Pilots are charged an initiation fee and monthly dues.

I'm pretty sure ours fly for free. Without them, we are grounded.

Lou

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 2:30:51 PM UTC-4, MNLou wrote:
It is interesting that Tow Pilots are charged an initiation fee and monthly dues.

I'm pretty sure ours fly for free. Without them, we are grounded.

Lou

Doesn't MSC require all of its members to buy a share or partial share of the corporation, which the club only partially returns when you leave?

I have to say our system seems to be working well for the club but I am not opposed to clubs that adopt the other school of thought... its rationale is logical and makes a lot of sense to me.

That said, you can never have enough tow pilots and CFIGs so I figure why not advertise our fleet. Tow pilots can also rent our two-seat Bird Dog for personal use at $85/hr wet so there's another bonus. :-)

I will say, I think our dues allow us to afford good equipment and for that I don't apologize to anyone. Our club is continuing to consolidate and improve its fleet and for that I'm grateful.

- Chris Schrader

That changed a bit a couple of years ago Chris. Now, it's a $1500 "buy in" with $500 returned when you leave.

The $85 wet option on the Bird Dog is a nice benefit.

I wasn't criticizing. Just surprised that tow pilots are willing to pay for the privilege.

Lou

Interesting discussion. I am paid for teaching in my professional life, and I am very good at it. I'd happily teach flying too if it didn't COST me money to do so... break-even would be fine by me.

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 3:22:18 PM UTC-7, Chris wrote:
Interesting discussion. I am paid for teaching in my professional life, and I am very good at it. I'd happily teach flying too if it didn't COST me money to do so... break-even would be fine by me.

I'm a CFIG who enjoys instructing, and I do it in my leisure time, so I don't charge. I also received my own training in a Club, where the instruction I received was free, and I like to pay that back. For a professional full-time CFIG who needs to make a living, of course payment is necessary, and they may feel resentful to CFIGs who don't charge.