Rope Breaks (Grilling sacred cows)

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 10:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Thank you for the replies and for expanding a bit on the topic. My intent was to be inclusive of both actual and simulated rope breaks in a flight regime where a turn is at least possible whether or not it is accomplished.

When I started digging into this topic I came across a handout from Cindy Brickner published on the SSF website titled "Takeoff Emergencies". Her second bullet point says pretty much what I've seen on simulated breaks.

The dictum related at the club in question was an immediate turn, no matter what. Maybe if I wait long enough I can find out how well that works out of the only place they could possibly land is straight ahead.

About ropes... one of the smarter things my club has done in the last decade was put rock climbers in charge of ropes. Those guys know rope. We put brand new ropes in service at the start of every season, no exceptions. These are long enough that if an end becomes frayed it can be repaired mid season. A rope that survives a season in "apparently" good condition might end up stored in the back of the tug for aero retrieve duty or in some club member's trailer for other than club use. They never go back to the line.

We have not had any rope failures since these procedures were adopted.

In any actual or simulated emergency, my main priority as an instructor is that the PIC achieves a safe resolution with a minimum of drama. Worrying about getting hit by the rope wasn't even on my radar.

T8

On Thursday, 1 October 2020 06:20:18 UTC-6, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 10:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Thank you for the replies and for expanding a bit on the topic. My intent was to be inclusive of both actual and simulated rope breaks in a flight regime where a turn is at least possible whether or not it is accomplished..

When I started digging into this topic I came across a handout from Cindy Brickner published on the SSF website titled "Takeoff Emergencies". Her second bullet point says pretty much what I've seen on simulated breaks.

The dictum related at the club in question was an immediate turn, no matter what. Maybe if I wait long enough I can find out how well that works out of the only place they could possibly land is straight ahead.

About ropes... one of the smarter things my club has done in the last decade was put rock climbers in charge of ropes. Those guys know rope. We put brand new ropes in service at the start of every season, no exceptions. These are long enough that if an end becomes frayed it can be repaired mid season. A rope that survives a season in "apparently" good condition might end up stored in the back of the tug for aero retrieve duty or in some club member's trailer for other than club use. They never go back to the line..

We have not had any rope failures since these procedures were adopted.

In any actual or simulated emergency, my main priority as an instructor is that the PIC achieves a safe resolution with a minimum of drama. Worrying about getting hit by the rope wasn't even on my radar.

T8

T8, what material are you using for the ropes? POlyPro, cotton, spectra, other?

Thanks in advance

On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 10:14:18 AM UTC-4, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Thursday, 1 October 2020 06:20:18 UTC-6, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 10:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Thank you for the replies and for expanding a bit on the topic. My intent was to be inclusive of both actual and simulated rope breaks in a flight regime where a turn is at least possible whether or not it is accomplished.

When I started digging into this topic I came across a handout from Cindy Brickner published on the SSF website titled "Takeoff Emergencies". Her second bullet point says pretty much what I've seen on simulated breaks.

The dictum related at the club in question was an immediate turn, no matter what. Maybe if I wait long enough I can find out how well that works out of the only place they could possibly land is straight ahead.

About ropes... one of the smarter things my club has done in the last decade was put rock climbers in charge of ropes. Those guys know rope. We put brand new ropes in service at the start of every season, no exceptions. These are long enough that if an end becomes frayed it can be repaired mid season. A rope that survives a season in "apparently" good condition might end up stored in the back of the tug for aero retrieve duty or in some club member's trailer for other than club use. They never go back to the line.

We have not had any rope failures since these procedures were adopted.

In any actual or simulated emergency, my main priority as an instructor is that the PIC achieves a safe resolution with a minimum of drama. Worrying about getting hit by the rope wasn't even on my radar.

T8
T8, what material are you using for the ropes? POlyPro, cotton, spectra, other?

Thanks in advance

Hollow braid polypropylene, iirc it's 5/16", pretty much the universal USA tow rope. The real art is in how they do the ring ends and the Tost ring adapters (and, of course, being hard core about the "retirement plan". I'll take some pics if interested.

T8

On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 8:20:18 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 10:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Thank you for the replies and for expanding a bit on the topic. My intent was to be inclusive of both actual and simulated rope breaks in a flight regime where a turn is at least possible whether or not it is accomplished..

When I started digging into this topic I came across a handout from Cindy Brickner published on the SSF website titled "Takeoff Emergencies". Her second bullet point says pretty much what I've seen on simulated breaks.

The dictum related at the club in question was an immediate turn, no matter what. Maybe if I wait long enough I can find out how well that works out of the only place they could possibly land is straight ahead.

About ropes... one of the smarter things my club has done in the last decade was put rock climbers in charge of ropes. Those guys know rope. We put brand new ropes in service at the start of every season, no exceptions. These are long enough that if an end becomes frayed it can be repaired mid season. A rope that survives a season in "apparently" good condition might end up stored in the back of the tug for aero retrieve duty or in some club member's trailer for other than club use. They never go back to the line..

We have not had any rope failures since these procedures were adopted.

In any actual or simulated emergency, my main priority as an instructor is that the PIC achieves a safe resolution with a minimum of drama. Worrying about getting hit by the rope wasn't even on my radar.

T8

Quite different from another operation, which shall remain nameless here (not my current club). Some 10 years ago I went there for a start-of-season flight, and they got the towplane ready and then needed a rope. So they went looking around on the grass alongside the runway, and found a rope - that was there since the end of the previous season, sometimes in the sun, sometimes under snow.

Did you take the tow?

On 10/1/2020 5:17 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 8:20:18 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 10:43:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Thank you for the replies and for expanding a bit on the topic. My intent was to be inclusive of both actual and simulated rope breaks in a flight regime where a turn is at least possible whether or not it is accomplished.

When I started digging into this topic I came across a handout from Cindy Brickner published on the SSF website titled "Takeoff Emergencies". Her second bullet point says pretty much what I've seen on simulated breaks.

The dictum related at the club in question was an immediate turn, no matter what. Maybe if I wait long enough I can find out how well that works out of the only place they could possibly land is straight ahead.
About ropes... one of the smarter things my club has done in the last decade was put rock climbers in charge of ropes. Those guys know rope. We put brand new ropes in service at the start of every season, no exceptions. These are long enough that if an end becomes frayed it can be repaired mid season. A rope that survives a season in "apparently" good condition might end up stored in the back of the tug for aero retrieve duty or in some club member's trailer for other than club use. They never go back to the line.

We have not had any rope failures since these procedures were adopted.

In any actual or simulated emergency, my main priority as an instructor is that the PIC achieves a safe resolution with a minimum of drama. Worrying about getting hit by the rope wasn't even on my radar.

T8
Quite different from another operation, which shall remain nameless here (not my current club). Some 10 years ago I went there for a start-of-season flight, and they got the towplane ready and then needed a rope. So they went looking around on the grass alongside the runway, and found a rope - that was there since the end of the previous season, sometimes in the sun, sometimes under snow.

--
Dan, 5J