Cirrus and Lancair Make Bonanza Obsolete?

prices. I was in the market for about an '85 model Bo or 210 a while
back, but now I'd seriously think about spending a little more and
getting a Cirrus.

A little more? How about double!

- Mark

Right now I'm this "........." close to buying a 1992 F33A and adding a
Tornado Alley Whirlwind to it. The cost will be about $255K, barely enough
to touch a Lanc or Cirrus.

And probably one of the best aircraft decisions you'll ever make.
You're REALLY going to enjoy that one. Boy, I'm envious (as will
everyone on the ramp be).

"Potential Bo Buyer" wrote in message
om...
[...]
It looks as if the once assumed appreciation rate for Bonanzas is in
for a big change. Agree? Thoughts?

Dunno, but a friend just returning from the AOPA fly-in said customers were
lined up there buying Cirrus SR22's. He said they were selling like
hotcakes.

On 12-Nov-2003, (Potential Bo Buyer) wrote:

Are the Lancair Columbia and Cirrus SR22 substitute products for the
4-place Bonanzas?


At first glance the primary capability and performance difference is that a
Bonanza (model 35) will have a fairly large payload advantage over a
comparably equipped SR22. If each is fueled for a 500 nm trip with IFR
reserves a typical SR22 will have a maximum cabin payload of around 680 lbs
and a Bonanza around 925 lbs. The SR22 will probably be a few kts faster,
which is remarkable considering the fixed gear.

I guess what this shows is that composite construction allows for greater
drag reduction at a penalty of higher weight. (The SR22 has an empty weight
of 2250 lbs and older Bonanzas come in at around 1950 lbs.)

--
-Elliott Drucker

the SR22 is also a 310 HP engine correct?
what size engine is in the bonanzas?


wrote:

On 12-Nov-2003, (Potential Bo Buyer) wrote:

Are the Lancair Columbia and Cirrus SR22 substitute products for the
4-place Bonanzas?

At first glance the primary capability and performance difference is that a
Bonanza (model 35) will have a fairly large payload advantage over a
comparably equipped SR22. If each is fueled for a 500 nm trip with IFR
reserves a typical SR22 will have a maximum cabin payload of around 680 lbs
and a Bonanza around 925 lbs. The SR22 will probably be a few kts faster,
which is remarkable considering the fixed gear.

I guess what this shows is that composite construction allows for greater
drag reduction at a penalty of higher weight. (The SR22 has an empty weight
of 2250 lbs and older Bonanzas come in at around 1950 lbs.)

--
-Elliott Drucker

The older ones (47) start at 185, about '55 they go to 225, '57 to
250, '62 to 260, '64 to 275, and about '75 at 300. All years are
approximations for you lawyer types.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:40:25 -0800, Jeff wrote:

the SR22 is also a 310 HP engine correct?
what size engine is in the bonanzas?


wrote:

On 12-Nov-2003, (Potential Bo Buyer) wrote:

Are the Lancair Columbia and Cirrus SR22 substitute products for the
4-place Bonanzas?

At first glance the primary capability and performance difference is that a
Bonanza (model 35) will have a fairly large payload advantage over a
comparably equipped SR22. If each is fueled for a 500 nm trip with IFR
reserves a typical SR22 will have a maximum cabin payload of around 680 lbs
and a Bonanza around 925 lbs. The SR22 will probably be a few kts faster,
which is remarkable considering the fixed gear.

I guess what this shows is that composite construction allows for greater
drag reduction at a penalty of higher weight. (The SR22 has an empty weight
of 2250 lbs and older Bonanzas come in at around 1950 lbs.)

--
-Elliott Drucker

"Jeff" wrote in message ...
the SR22 is also a 310 HP engine correct?
what size engine is in the bonanzas?

IO-520-BB is 285, the IO-550 is 300

Add a Tornado Alley Whirlwind and keep those numbers up to 20,000 feet.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:43:50 -0700, "Tom S."
wrote:


"Jeff" wrote in message ...
the SR22 is also a 310 HP engine correct?
what size engine is in the bonanzas?

IO-520-BB is 285, the IO-550 is 300

Add a Tornado Alley Whirlwind and keep those numbers up to 20,000 feet.

Maybe even 24,000 if you believe George!

On 12 Nov 2003 09:58:25 -0800
(Potential Bo Buyer) wrote:

Why is the market for late model V35B's and F33A's so flat. The
economic climate (real and perceived) and 90's run-up have a lot to do
with it, I'll acknowledge that. But there seems to be something else
at work in this market.

Are the Lancair Columbia and Cirrus SR22 substitute products for the
4-place Bonanzas? (For the sake of this post V35B's and F33A's are 4
place not 6 place airplanes. Keep it real.) To be honest, if I had
300K + in my budget I would probably evaluate the Columbia and SR22
first before considering a Bonanza. After all, they're faster with
fixed gear, won't corrode, have modern avionics and are 30 years newer
than the Bonanzas I'm considering.

It looks as if the once assumed appreciation rate for Bonanzas is in
for a big change. Agree? Thoughts?


I think that a lot of newer pilots today like the simplicity of operating
the newer planes. Less stuff to fiddle around with means less stuff to
screw up. There are some drawbacks with new planes. Not lots of hours
logged yet to prvoe the design. I thought I heard the Cirrus had some
bad stall characteristics or was it spin? Haven't heard a lot about the
Lancair.


I definitely agree that appreciation rates are in for a big change. I
think it's been changing and will keep changing and not just for
Bonanzas.


R. Hubbell

I don't think anyone should fool themselves that there's less to fiddle with
in the -22. It can be a very busy cockpit at times. However, the PFD/MFD
is absolutely amazing in it's presentation of data to manage single pilot
IFR flights in my opinion.
I considered buying a Bo', looking at both models cited. In the end, all of
the safety features designed into the Cirrus products carried the day.
Living in the Pacific NW made the TKS system a no brainer. Even at $380,000
I don't think you can find a comparable Bonanza.

One other note, slow flight and stalls in the -22 (I assume it's also true
of the -20 but haven't flown one) are very impressive tests of the planes
capabilities. Stalls are a non-event with remarkable aileron authority
right up to the stall. Don't know about spins Having flown a Grumman
Tiger though I'm pretty comfortable restricting spins and other aerobatics
to airplanes like the Extra.

All in all the SR22 is one heck of a traveling machine. I consistently see
181-184KTAS on 18gph running ROP. AND my wife will now fly with me so
that's another big plus.


--
Patrick Flynn
Sammamish, WA
Cirrus SR22 N6099Z KRNT
All the bells and whistles

"R. Hubbell" wrote in message
news:HRCsb.428$iS6.200@fed1read04...
On 12 Nov 2003 09:58:25 -0800
(Potential Bo Buyer) wrote:

Why is the market for late model V35B's and F33A's so flat. The
economic climate (real and perceived) and 90's run-up have a lot to do
with it, I'll acknowledge that. But there seems to be something else
at work in this market.

Are the Lancair Columbia and Cirrus SR22 substitute products for the
4-place Bonanzas? (For the sake of this post V35B's and F33A's are 4
place not 6 place airplanes. Keep it real.) To be honest, if I had
300K + in my budget I would probably evaluate the Columbia and SR22
first before considering a Bonanza. After all, they're faster with
fixed gear, won't corrode, have modern avionics and are 30 years newer
than the Bonanzas I'm considering.

It looks as if the once assumed appreciation rate for Bonanzas is in
for a big change. Agree? Thoughts?


I think that a lot of newer pilots today like the simplicity of operating
the newer planes. Less stuff to fiddle around with means less stuff to
screw up. There are some drawbacks with new planes. Not lots of hours
logged yet to prvoe the design. I thought I heard the Cirrus had some
bad stall characteristics or was it spin? Haven't heard a lot about the
Lancair.


I definitely agree that appreciation rates are in for a big change. I
think it's been changing and will keep changing and not just for
Bonanzas.


R. Hubbell