In-Flight Engine Failure

Ray Andraka wrote:
Why,

If you check the left and then the right mag, you know that both of them will
ground out properly without risking damage due to a backfire. The only thing
that individually checking the mags won't find is a switch that is defective
in the off position only, pretty unlikely. If you are that paranoid about the
switch, you can check it with an ohmmeter with the engine stopped.

Many (OK, some) ignition switches have an AD with a recurring inspection
requirement that requires testing the OFF position every 100 hours. AD 76-07-12


Orval Fairbairn wrote:


Very unlikely -- all the P-lead break does is prevent you from shutting
down that mag. It is a good idea to pefrorm a "both off" check when
doing a mag check. That way, you will be able to find a broken P-lead.


--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759




--
Dave Butler, software engineer 919-392-4367

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:01:16 -0400, Dave Butler
wrote:

Ray Andraka wrote:
Why,

If you check the left and then the right mag, you know that both of them will
ground out properly without risking damage due to a backfire. The only thing
that individually checking the mags won't find is a switch that is defective
in the off position only, pretty unlikely. If you are that paranoid about the
switch, you can check it with an ohmmeter with the engine stopped.

Many (OK, some) ignition switches have an AD with a recurring inspection
requirement that requires testing the OFF position every 100 hours. AD 76-07-12

Yep, and you can tell when the mechanic is testing the Bendix switch
by the backfires outside his hangar.

In article , Nathan Young
writes:

Many (OK, some) ignition switches have an AD with a recurring inspection
requirement that requires testing the OFF position every 100 hours. AD
76-07-12

Yep, and you can tell when the mechanic is testing the Bendix switch
by the backfires outside his hangar.

Question. If you let the engine come to a stop and then restarted it, would
that be better? Would it possibly cause a manifold fire? It would prevent the
backfire.

Chuck

Again, my contention is that you are better off checking one mag at a time, to
verify the mags ground out properly, and then check the off position of the switch
using an ohmmeter rather than causing the engine to backfire.

The other alternative I guess is to leave the switch in the off position once you
put it there, let the engine shut down completely, then restart it and shut it down
normally.

Dave Butler wrote:

Ray Andraka wrote:
Why,

If you check the left and then the right mag, you know that both of them will
ground out properly without risking damage due to a backfire. The only thing
that individually checking the mags won't find is a switch that is defective
in the off position only, pretty unlikely. If you are that paranoid about the
switch, you can check it with an ohmmeter with the engine stopped.

Many (OK, some) ignition switches have an AD with a recurring inspection
requirement that requires testing the OFF position every 100 hours. AD 76-07-12


Orval Fairbairn wrote:


Very unlikely -- all the P-lead break does is prevent you from shutting
down that mag. It is a good idea to pefrorm a "both off" check when
doing a mag check. That way, you will be able to find a broken P-lead.


--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759



--
Dave Butler, software engineer 919-392-4367

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

What brand of cylinders are they?

I don't know about the "360" series cylinders, but I would NEVER put
Continentals on if there were any alternative. Continental makes only junk
at this time and their reps are just paid liars.

Karl

I presume they are TCM, but I am not certain. I left the logs with the
mechanic. In my appraisal, it says "8/20/02 Installation of six factor
new cylinder assemblies, part number 654970A4BP. Installed by
Maintenance Express."

-Sami

kage wrote:

What brand of cylinders are they?

I don't know about the "360" series cylinders, but I would NEVER put
Continentals on if there were any alternative. Continental makes only junk
at this time and their reps are just paid liars.

Karl

Oops..that should have said "8/20/03...."

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:

I presume they are TCM, but I am not certain. I left the logs with the
mechanic. In my appraisal, it says "8/20/02 Installation of six factor
new cylinder assemblies, part number 654970A4BP. Installed by
Maintenance Express."

-Sami

kage wrote:

What brand of cylinders are they?

I don't know about the "360" series cylinders, but I would NEVER put
Continentals on if there were any alternative. Continental makes only
junk
at this time and their reps are just paid liars.

Karl

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message ...
Well, it happended. I have owned the plane (Piper Turbo Arrow III) for
3 months and the engine failed during climb out on Tuesday. Altitude
was 4400 feet. Luckily, the engine did not entirely quit and I made it
to an airport within 10 miles. TBO was 1000 hours away. Dissapointing!
When we cut the oil filter, it was full of fairly large aluminum and
steel bits of metal. Arg!

What is wrong with this engine? The symptoms surely don't relate to
P leads or magneto wires.

Why not run a compression check on it? Take off the valve cover on
any suspicious cylinders. What's in there?

Take off the cylinder, if you figure out
that it's only one. See what's going on. What's the cam look like?

With the cylinder off, you can look inside the case for clues.

There are a lot of failures where you could do a repair and be back
in business--unless something got loose and whanged around inside.
The oil filter probably kept stuff out of the bearings.

It wouldn't be much of an investment in time to investigate. Plus,
we all want to know what busted!! Heck, you can even do this yourself.

It's a hard running engine.

Bill H

Why not run a compression check on it? Take off the valve cover on
any suspicious cylinders. What's in there?

Well, I was traveling on business when the failure happened, I could
only spend the next morning with it before I had to be flown home
(commercially, arg!). Also the shop where I was had several fires
happening simultaneously and were short handed, so they were unwilling
to investigate beyond pull the spark plugs and cutting the oil filter.



Take off the cylinder, if you figure out
that it's only one. See what's going on. What's the cam look like?

Well, I am sending my A&P out there on Monday and I hope to learn these
details from him. I will report back. My skill level is not at the
point I could have easily done these things myself. Sorry to tease you
with scant description and not be able to provide the details.


With the cylinder off, you can look inside the case for clues.

There are a lot of failures where you could do a repair and be back
in business--unless something got loose and whanged around inside.
The oil filter probably kept stuff out of the bearings.

That would be nice. My A&P suspects that the bearings are likely
fouled, but we will find out.

It wouldn't be much of an investment in time to investigate. Plus,
we all want to know what busted!! Heck, you can even do this yourself.

Would it were so. Perhaps in a few years


It's a hard running engine.

Bill H

If it were me, and knowing that the oil pressure dropped off to near zero, plus all the metal, I would not
opt for anything less than a complete overhaul. Even if the obvious damage is isolated to one cylinder, you
don't know what damage the low oil pressure and all that metal did elsewhere. It would really suck to spend
a bunch of cash on a fix only to have it happen again. Besides, right now, the cost of an overhaul is
relatively low compared to the prices over the last few years. If there were no metal, and the oil pressure
hadn't dropped, then maybe, but not under those circumstances.

Bill Hale wrote:


There are a lot of failures where you could do a repair and be back
in business--unless something got loose and whanged around inside.
The oil filter probably kept stuff out of the bearings.

It wouldn't be much of an investment in time to investigate. Plus,
we all want to know what busted!! Heck, you can even do this yourself.

It's a hard running engine.

Bill H

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759