Value of a knot

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
...
...the collorary to that is if you want to go the same speed,

Corollary...

Brain/finger mismatch.

Paul

Amen on enjoying the flight.

Personally, speed mods that include upping the GPH are not very interesting
to me for similar reasons.

I mostly fly short trips, and take my time. However, the wife sees the plane
as a way to get places, and so I am concerned about efficiency. Also, the
ability to go more places in a single leg interests me.

I am still thinking a $1000 per knot seems about right to me.


"tony roberts" wrote in message
news:nospam-4FFFDB.23194306092004@shawnews...
My own view - who cares?
I fly because I love to fly - not because I want to get from A to B in X
amount of time. I have friends who go Waaaay faster than me - and they
burn 14gph. I plod along burning 8gph. I love to fly.They get there much
faster and fly a lot less. I doodle along at my 8GPH, and take way
longer than them. There are faster ways of getting there - but that
isn't why I'm flying. I'm flying because I love flying. So how much
would I pay to fly faster? Very little. How much would I pay to get
shorter and safer take-offs from short high density altitude strips?
Lots.

Tony


--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE


In article ,
"Dude" wrote:

I got an idea from a recent thread.

I would like to know what you guys would spend to go a little faster.
This
would seem to be interesting information, and a fun topic.

Please note the present speed of your plane, because 5 knots means a lot
more at 100 than 200.

Personally, It seems to me that a speed mod less than $1,000 a knot is
likely a good deal. I presently fly about 142 in a hurry, and 120 when
I am
not.

I know the people selling the mods often over advertise, but lets assume
we
know the real increase of a given mod from an expert. What's it worth
to
you?




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 20:51:16 GMT, "Dude" wrote:

For 1-3 hour trips, I wouldn't spend anything (well, not $1,000
anyway) to go faster.

I fly a B model 170. All my flying buds own 180s (or 182s). On a one
hour trip, I'm 15 minutes behind them when I show up (they're just
pulling beers out of their coolers), two hour trip, perhaps 25-30
minutes, etc. I burn 7.? gallons per hour. They burn 14 (or more).
When my airplane breaks, a C-note gets it going again. When theirs
breaks, it's more like 5 C-notes.

I could put a cruise prop on my airplane, little baby tires and wheel
pants, perhaps try to trim a few pounds off of it and then it'd cruise
at 118-120 mph instead of 112 mph (I've got a climb prop on mine
and 850 tires).

Bottom line, if you bought every speed mod available for your type
of airplane, the cost to do so might be tough to justify over the
long-run. In my cause, it would be cheaper to pass the 170 on
to someone else who will enjoy it for what it is and go out and buy
a bone-stock (early) C-180.

Bela P. Havasreti



I got an idea from a recent thread.

I would like to know what you guys would spend to go a little faster. This
would seem to be interesting information, and a fun topic.

Please note the present speed of your plane, because 5 knots means a lot
more at 100 than 200.

Personally, It seems to me that a speed mod less than $1,000 a knot is
likely a good deal. I presently fly about 142 in a hurry, and 120 when I am
not.

I know the people selling the mods often over advertise, but lets assume we
know the real increase of a given mod from an expert. What's it worth to
you?

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 20:51:16 GMT, "Dude" wrote:

I got an idea from a recent thread.

I would like to know what you guys would spend to go a little faster. This
would seem to be interesting information, and a fun topic.

Please note the present speed of your plane, because 5 knots means a lot
more at 100 than 200.

Personally, It seems to me that a speed mod less than $1,000 a knot is
likely a good deal. I presently fly about 142 in a hurry, and 120 when I am
not.

I know the people selling the mods often over advertise, but lets assume we
know the real increase of a given mod from an expert. What's it worth to
you?

I fly a PA28-180. Added the K2U speed mods (all of them) and fly
approx 5-8mph faster than the plane used to. (The performance seems
to be dependent on OAT).

This means I get to cruise @ 140mph loafing, or 150mph pushing it @
8000ft.

Cost was a bit lower than $1k/knot. There are other benefits than
speed though. Climb rate is better, and handling is much crisper with
the aileron and stabilator seals, so there is value there.

One interesting data point. You really need a constant speed prop to
take full advantage of the drag reduction from speedmods. I can
redline my prop close to 10k DA. I've considered repitching to
capture some additional speed, but obviously there would be a loss on
climb. I am also not sure of the legalities in repitcing as the
PA28-180 is only certified for a 58 or 60" prop and I already have a
60" prop.

From a financial standpoint. The speedmods make the plane about 3-4%
faster. So if it costs me approx $60/hr to fly my plane, the
speedmods are saving me approx $2-3/hr. That's a long payback period.
I'm not even sure if that is a fair comparison since that is my hourly
operating cost (including insurance, hangar, etc), and not the direct
(fuel/oil) operating costs, which would be even lower.

-Nathan

Interesting question - answers will be all over the map. But most of
us fly for pleasure. Sometimes I fly 65% instead of 75% just to
prolong the flight. Under these conditions, an extra knot isn't worth
anything.

People who buy speed mods generally just enjoy spending money on their
airplanes; the purported speed gain is only a rationalization.

PaulH wrote:
: Interesting question - answers will be all over the map. But most of
: us fly for pleasure. Sometimes I fly 65% instead of 75% just to
: prolong the flight. Under these conditions, an extra knot isn't worth
: anything.

... unless you turn that knot into less GPH. Of course, you'll never make
your money back, but it might help. If you were to add enough speed mods to get the
same speed at 65% you used to get at 75%, it translates into more enjoyment for less
direct cost.

: People who buy speed mods generally just enjoy spending money on their
: airplanes; the purported speed gain is only a rationalization.

Amen to that. If you want a faster airplane, sell what you've got and buy one
that's faster. If you add speed mods, you're not going to get much. Even if you bolt
on a bigger engine, it'll burn more gas, not go appreciably faster. Drag power goes
as the cube of the speed. Changing the drag coefficient (read: speed mods and usually
a few percent at most) changes the required power linearly with speed.

-Cory
--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

I put gap seals on my six, but not for the speed. I put them on for
better climb rate and low speed handling. I did gain about 5kts as well,
but that was not the motivation (it was actually a pleasant surprise, as I
didn't expect it).

PaulH wrote:

Interesting question - answers will be all over the map. But most of
us fly for pleasure. Sometimes I fly 65% instead of 75% just to
prolong the flight. Under these conditions, an extra knot isn't worth
anything.

People who buy speed mods generally just enjoy spending money on their
airplanes; the purported speed gain is only a rationalization.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Dude wrote:

Personally, It seems to me that a speed mod less than $1,000 a knot is
likely a good deal. I presently fly about 142 in a hurry, and 120 when I am
not.

Personally, I need additional carrying capacity. If I were in a position to afford
it, I would pay for that. I'm not interested in speed enough to pay that kind of
money for more.

BTW; my cruise is 103 knots.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

Well, that would be a neat mod, but the only way I can think to get that on
most planes is to improve efficiency and leave more fuel on the ground.



"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Dude wrote:

Personally, It seems to me that a speed mod less than $1,000 a knot is
likely a good deal. I presently fly about 142 in a hurry, and 120 when
I am
not.

Personally, I need additional carrying capacity. If I were in a position
to afford
it, I would pay for that. I'm not interested in speed enough to pay that
kind of
money for more.

BTW; my cruise is 103 knots.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

Dude wrote:

Well, that would be a neat mod, but the only way I can think to get that on
most planes is to improve efficiency and leave more fuel on the ground.

The mod is simple -- trade up to a bigger plane.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.