Looking for non-biased resource

Mike Rapoport wrote:

I have never heard of a company flyings technicians around in a private jet
to install software. It sounds ridiculous. Can't you find a contractor to
install the software?

While I've not heard of private aircraft being used for this, sending company
personnel to do software installations is SOP for large systems or cases in
which security is a big issue. Contractors would be completely unsuitable for
this in all the cases with which I am familiar.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:22:13 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

Contractors would be completely unsuitable for
this in all the cases with which I am familiar.


I've seen it done, and worked on proprietary projects. You have to
sign a bunch of forms saying you won't steal the technology or compete
with them for 6 to 12 months, but most of it just re-enforces what
should be good ethical procedures anyway.

z

zatatime wrote:

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:22:13 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

Contractors would be completely unsuitable for
this in all the cases with which I am familiar.

I've seen it done, and worked on proprietary projects. You have to
sign a bunch of forms saying you won't steal the technology or compete
with them for 6 to 12 months, but most of it just re-enforces what
should be good ethical procedures anyway.

For the systems on which I used to work, no contractor could do it without
several days to several weeks of extensive training at corporate facilities.
That alone makes contracting with remotely based people for one-shot jobs
completely unsuitable. In some cases with which I'm familiar, a security
clearance is also required, but I would guess that isn't the case here.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

We have a few customers that require security clearances and US citizenship
but the reason we do the installs ourselves is the depth of knowledge
required to do the installation, customization and training.

Ed

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


zatatime wrote:

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:22:13 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

Contractors would be completely unsuitable for
this in all the cases with which I am familiar.

I've seen it done, and worked on proprietary projects. You have to
sign a bunch of forms saying you won't steal the technology or compete
with them for 6 to 12 months, but most of it just re-enforces what
should be good ethical procedures anyway.

For the systems on which I used to work, no contractor could do it without
several days to several weeks of extensive training at corporate
facilities.
That alone makes contracting with remotely based people for one-shot jobs
completely unsuitable. In some cases with which I'm familiar, a security
clearance is also required, but I would guess that isn't the case here.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble
enterprise.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


zatatime wrote:

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:22:13 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

Contractors would be completely unsuitable for
this in all the cases with which I am familiar.

I've seen it done, and worked on proprietary projects. You have to
sign a bunch of forms saying you won't steal the technology or compete
with them for 6 to 12 months, but most of it just re-enforces what
should be good ethical procedures anyway.

For the systems on which I used to work, no contractor could do it without
several days to several weeks of extensive training at corporate
facilities.
That alone makes contracting with remotely based people for one-shot jobs
completely unsuitable. In some cases with which I'm familiar, a security
clearance is also required, but I would guess that isn't the case here.

George Patterson

Who said anything about "one shot jobs". They are going to the coasts
frequently to do installations.

Mike
MU-2

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Mike Rapoport wrote:

I have never heard of a company flyings technicians around in a private
jet
to install software. It sounds ridiculous. Can't you find a contractor
to
install the software?

While I've not heard of private aircraft being used for this, sending
company
personnel to do software installations is SOP for large systems or cases
in
which security is a big issue. Contractors would be completely unsuitable
for
this in all the cases with which I am familiar.

Some times it requires a security clearance...Secret, Top Secret...


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:44:32 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

Can't you find a contractor to
install the software?

I'll do it, and I'll bet it only takes me 2 weeks to learn the
software to be a good train the trainer too.

z
(serious offer from an out of work techie).

Contractors are not an option. Typically our customers have highly
sophisticated IT departments with scores of skilled technicians. Our
product is an integrated software suite that is customized during the
installation to the customer requirements. The installation and
customization requires substantial knowledge in several areas. Our techs
usually go through about 4 months of telephone support performing tier 1, 2
and 3 support before going on the road. They are mentored on installations
by a senior engineer for 3-6 months before being sent to an installation
solo.

Ed

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
A bare bones jet like a CJ-2 will cost about $1200/hr to operate if you
have
high utilization. Interest cost on the purchase will be about $350K/yr.
If
you fly 400hrs/yr it will cost $830K/yr.

Old cheap jets will cost substantially more to operate but less to buy.
Basically, the higher your utilization, the more sense it makes to buy a
newer airplane with lower operating costs. Many of these older jets will
requre a fuel stop flying westbound between Houston and one of the coasts
particulary if you are going to the NE or NW. Without RVSM, none of the
older jets will be able to make the westbound legs without stopping..

I have never heard of a company flyings technicians around in a private
jet
to install software. It sounds ridiculous. Can't you find a contractor
to
install the software?

Mike
MU-2


"nobody" wrote in message
om...


I had a brief meeting with my CEO last week. Our company spends 80K -
120K
annually on commercial flights. He knows I am a private pilot and he
asked
me if I could prepare a comparative analysis of alternatives such as
fractional ownership, outright ownership, leaseback or charter.

I don't know jack about jets. My assumption is that I'm looking at a
jet
versus a King Air or similar. We're based in Houston and regularly fly
to
both coasts with 3 - 6 passengers. I am looking at a large, empty
spreadsheet. Many manufacturers and brokers offer breakdowns for their
products but I am looking for a non-biased source for several pieces of
information.

1.) Where can I find non-biased, mostly accurate estimate of direct and
indirect operating costs?

2.) There are several business jet models available for 1,000,000 like
the
Hawker DH 125, Sabre, Citation 500, Lear 24 and 25, Jet Commander.
Short
of
looking up all the AD's for each variation of each model, where can I
find
an honest review of those models with both pros and cons?

3.) Is $1,000,000 reasonable or should I expect those aircraft to be
in
need of some serious work, AD compliance, or expensive upgrades to meet
RVSM
certification?

4.) Anybody know what a full time corporate pilot makes nowadays?

TIA,
Ed

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
A bare bones jet like a CJ-2 will cost about $1200/hr to operate if you
have
high utilization. Interest cost on the purchase will be about $350K/yr.
If
you fly 400hrs/yr it will cost $830K/yr.

Could you show some details for those numbers? I don't know about theCJ-2,
but I do know some people who oeprate a 2001 CJ-1 and those numbers are not
even close on the interest cost.

particulary if you are going to the NE or NW. Without RVSM, none of the
older jets will be able to make the westbound legs without stopping..

Pardon? Just about any jet now is going to have to be certified for RVSM to
use an altitude over FL290. The cost, relative to the cost of the aircraft,
is "minimal" for equipment and training.

I have never heard of a company flyings technicians around in a private
jet
to install software. It sounds ridiculous. Can't you find a contractor
to
install the software?

That does sound bizarre, but I'd guess he's not talking about installing
Windows XP on some secretaries workstation. Now, if it's nusual software on
a highly secure system and environment, maybe so, but in any case, they'd be
more likely to jsut use the airlines.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

I have a friend who bought a CJ2 last month for about 5.3MM. The $350K/yr
is just assuming an interest cost a little below 7% it does not consider
ammortization of the loan. The RVSM comment was based on the notion that
the new jets all have RVSM or can have it added fairly easily since they
already have digital airdata. BTW getting RVSM on some older jets is not
trivial because the skins are not straight enough.. If you are buying a
$1MM airplane, $100K for RVSM is not trivial.


"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
A bare bones jet like a CJ-2 will cost about $1200/hr to operate if you
have
high utilization. Interest cost on the purchase will be about $350K/yr.
If
you fly 400hrs/yr it will cost $830K/yr.

Could you show some details for those numbers? I don't know about theCJ-2,
but I do know some people who oeprate a 2001 CJ-1 and those numbers are
not
even close on the interest cost.

particulary if you are going to the NE or NW. Without RVSM, none of the
older jets will be able to make the westbound legs without stopping..

Pardon? Just about any jet now is going to have to be certified for RVSM
to
use an altitude over FL290. The cost, relative to the cost of the
aircraft,
is "minimal" for equipment and training.

I have never heard of a company flyings technicians around in a private
jet
to install software. It sounds ridiculous. Can't you find a contractor
to
install the software?

That does sound bizarre, but I'd guess he's not talking about installing
Windows XP on some secretaries workstation. Now, if it's nusual software
on
a highly secure system and environment, maybe so, but in any case, they'd
be
more likely to jsut use the airlines.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO