Rolling a 172 - or not

Big John wrote
1. A 'barrel roll' is a roll where (if done properly) you as a
passenger, with your eyes closed, can not tell you did a roll.
The ball stays centered and if one 'G' is maintained, it feels
like straight and level flight. Starting nose position and of
course air speed varies between underpoweed GA aircraft and
super sonic Fghters.
There are also a few fine points the experts use that I have not
covered but above are the basics.

Been there done that for longer (65 years) than BOb has been
flying. )

I have e-mailed BigJohn and posted at:

alt.binaries.pictures.aviation

a scan from William Kershner's book, The Flight Instructor's
Manual, in which he describes the barrel roll as an acrobatic
maneuver. You probably know that Mr. Kershner is one of the most
respected names in the flight training field, having authored
several books on the subject. Not as funny as Machado, but he has
been around for a much longer period of time.
I haven't scanned and OCRed the text because I think that the
picture is self-explanitory, but if it would help, I will do the
page of text describing the barrel roll.

Note that as mentioned in my previous post quoting from:

http://acro.harvard.edu

that one cannot maintain "one G" in a barrel roll since it involves
both a loop and a roll. In order to perform the loop portion, one
must pull at least 3-3.5 Gs in the pull-up and a similiar force in
the pull-out. While inverted, the g-force drops to .5-1 g as in a
normal loop.

I readily conceed that Big John as been around a bit longer than I,
but by the the time that I flew in the military, we were learning
to fly in "airplanes", not "birds". :-) :-)

Bob

Robert

Talk me through a loop doing a Barrel Roll. We must be using different
words or maneuvers?

First let me try a different set of words for a GA barrel roll.

1. Drop the nose and pick up 20-25 mph.
2. Start a nose low left turn in the shallow dive and turn 20-30
degrees.
3, Start pulling nose up and reversing turn using 1 'G' of
acceleration (plus 1 G of gravity).
4. Continue the constant rate of roll and the 2 'G's on aircraft.
5. After passing the inverted position continue roll pulling the 2 G's
until bird is back with wings level.
6. Ending nose may be level or down depending on aircraft, starting
airspeed and rate of roll.

You can make a tight barrel roll pulling more that the 2 G's if you
want and using more aileron. If tighter will go around faster of
course.

Now your turn with the help of the guy who wrote the book you read.

Don't know what base you got your Pilot training at and the years. I
was at Willie from '49 to '53 and taught Basic. Advanced and Gunnery.

The Pilots always used the acronym "Bird". Lots of the paper forms
that we filled out used the word 'aircraft' however.

On a 172,. I'd do a barrel roll in the bird but not a slow roll or
aileron roll .Either would over stress the bird 99 times out of a
hundred.

Enough. Let the others have the stage now.

Big John


On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 14:54:09 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote:

Big John wrote
1. A 'barrel roll' is a roll where (if done properly) you as a
passenger, with your eyes closed, can not tell you did a roll.
The ball stays centered and if one 'G' is maintained, it feels
like straight and level flight. Starting nose position and of
course air speed varies between underpoweed GA aircraft and
super sonic Fghters.
There are also a few fine points the experts use that I have not
covered but above are the basics.

Been there done that for longer (65 years) than BOb has been
flying. )

I have e-mailed BigJohn and posted at:

alt.binaries.pictures.aviation

a scan from William Kershner's book, The Flight Instructor's
Manual, in which he describes the barrel roll as an acrobatic
maneuver. You probably know that Mr. Kershner is one of the most
respected names in the flight training field, having authored
several books on the subject. Not as funny as Machado, but he has
been around for a much longer period of time.
I haven't scanned and OCRed the text because I think that the
picture is self-explanitory, but if it would help, I will do the
page of text describing the barrel roll.

Note that as mentioned in my previous post quoting from:

http://acro.harvard.edu

that one cannot maintain "one G" in a barrel roll since it involves
both a loop and a roll. In order to perform the loop portion, one
must pull at least 3-3.5 Gs in the pull-up and a similiar force in
the pull-out. While inverted, the g-force drops to .5-1 g as in a
normal loop.

I readily conceed that Big John as been around a bit longer than I,
but by the the time that I flew in the military, we were learning
to fly in "airplanes", not "birds". :-) :-)

Bob

Big John wrote

Talk me through a loop doing a Barrel Roll. We must be using
different words or maneuvers?

John, have you looked at the barrel roll picture that I e-mailed
you and posted on alt.binaries.pictures.aviation?
If not, further discussion will be of no use.

Have you checked the "Willian Kershner" web site and read the
author's credentials?
If not, you just leave us wondering "who-the-hell" is Big John,
and what credence should we give to his unsupported assertions?
Mr. Kershner owns and operates an Aerobatic Flight School and
has authored the book, "The Basic Aerobatic Manual" which as he
points out, was an offshoot (with permission) of the manual he
helped write for Cessna Aircraft in 1969.

First let me try a different set of words for a GA barrel roll.

Here are William Kershner's words that accompanied the diagram of
the barrel roll in his The Flight Instructor's Manual in which he
devotes all of chapter 5 (66 pages) to aerobatic instruction.

Quote..............or should I say OCR'ed

THE BARREL ROLL
• Preparation. It's almost impossible to draw a barrel roll
on the chalkboard, but a model will give the desired results.
Have the trainee study the references.

•Explanation. The barrel roll is a precise maneuver in which
the airplane is rolled around an imaginary point 45° to
the original flight path. A positive-g level is maintained
throughout the maneuver, and the ball in the turn indicator
should stay in the middle.

You may wonder why the barrel roll is taught this late,
since it appears to be so simple. Well, it is a precise maneuver
requiring particular airplane attitudes at particular reference
points, which is difficult for the average trainee to do properly
at first.

This maneuver might be considered an exaggeration of the
wingover, but instead of starting to shallow the bank at the 90°
position, the pilot must steepen it continually until the airplane
has rolled 360° and is back on the original heading. The rate of
roll must be much greater than that used for the wingover
because the airplane must be in a vertical bank at 45° of turn,
and it must be inverted at 90° of turn. The roll and turn is
continued until the airplane is headed in the original direction with
the wings level. Compare the barrel roll in Fig. 23-12 with the same
view of the wingover in Fig. 20-7.

From behind the maneuver looks as though the airplane is being
flown around the outside of a barrel. This is a very good maneuver
for gaining confidence and keeping oriented while flying inverted in
balanced flight.
Good coordination is required to do the barrel roll properly and
the trainee will show an improvement in that area after a session of
barrel rolls.

The barrel roll is generally more difficult and precise than the
aileron roll, and he may have to work on this one awhile.

Why-
The barrel roll is one of the best maneuvers for improving
orientation.

Unlike the other acrobatic maneuvers covered thus far, the barrel
roll requires a constantly changing bank and pitch (with attendant
changing airspeed) and a radical change in heading (90°) while the
airplane is rolling. The average trainee probably will be looking at
the wing tip at a time when he should be checking the nose, or vice
versa.
When he is able to stay well oriented in the barrel roll, he is ready
to move on to the reverse Cuban eight or reverse cloverleaf.

How-
You might use the following explanation, or develop your own:
(1) Make sure the area is clear, then pick a reference on the
horizon off the wing tip as in the wingover and lazy eight.
(2) Set the throttle to low cruise rpm and ease the nose over to
pick-up about 10 K more than used for the wingover or set up
the airspeed used for a loop, whichever is higher. Power
adjustment should not be necessary during the maneuver. You
might have some of your sharper trainees apply full power as
the airplane approaches inverted and then remind them to
throttle back as the airspeed picks up in the last part of the
maneuver.
(3) Smoothly pull the nose up and start a coordinated climbing turn
(note that it will have to be at a much faster rate than was
used for the wingover) toward the reference point. (Assume that
at first the roll will be to the left.)
(4) When the nose is 45° from the original heading, it should be
at its highest pitch attitude and the left bank should be
vertical.
(5) When the nose is at 90° from the original heading, you should
be looking directly at the reference point that was originally
off the wing tipfrom a completely inverted position
(momentarily).
(6) When the airplane heading is again 45° from the original, the
bank is vertical but you will be in a right bank as far as the
ground is concerned; that is, the right wing is pointing
straight down at this instant of roll. The nose will be at its
lowest pitch attitude at this point.
(7) The roll is continued to wings-level flight as the nose is
raised back to the cruise attitude.

The maneuver must be symmetrical; the nose must go as far above the
horizon as below. The barrel roll requires definite checkpoints to
ensure that the airplane is at the correct attitude throughout. It is
interesting to note that if the barrel roll is to the left, all of
the airplane's path is to the left of the original line of flight and
the airplane's nose is always pointed to the left of the original
flight line (until it merges again at the completion of the
maneuver). The opposite occurs, naturally, for the barrel roll to the
right.

Another method of doing a barrel roll is to pick a reference on the
horizon, turn the airplane 45° to the reference point, and proceed to
make a wide roll around this real point. One disadvantage of this
method for the newcomer is that it depends on the pilot's own
judgment of how large the orbit around the point should be. For an
introduction to the maneuver, the first method is usually better, but
you may prefer the second and work out your own techniques of
instructing it.

Demonstration.
Try not to lose the reference point yourself while demonstrating
this one. You may find your explanation is not keeping up with the
airplane, which usually results in sputtering and stuttering while
the maneuver proceeds to its foregone conclusion -and then you have
to do a new demonstration. Don't worry, this will happen plenty of
times during your career of instructing aerobatics -when your mouth
can't keep up with your brain or the maneuver-and it can ease tension
if you react to it with humor.

Usually the trainee is surprised to see the same wing tip back on the
reference point and may confess that, like the first snap roll, the
earth and sky were blurred and he had no idea where the reference was
during the maneuver.

Practice.
You may rest assured the trainee will "lose" the reference point
during the first couple of barrel rolls. He'll usually stare over the
nose, seeingnothing but blue sky or ground and not really seeing the
point at all.

Common errors during barrel rolls include these:
1. Not pulling the nose high enough in the first 45° of the
maneuver, which means that the highest and lowest nose positions
are not symmetrical to the horizon.
2. Not maintaining a constant rate of roll. Usually things are fine
at the 45° position; the nose is at its highest pitch and the
bank is vertical.
As you approach the position of 90° of turn you will probably
find that he is not going to be completely inverted at that
point and will have to rush things a bit to make it. The usual
reason is that he did not maintain a constant rate of roll.
Remember that the nose is up and the airspeed is slower in this
segment of the maneuver, so the controls must be deflected more
to get the same rate. This is where coordination comes in. Watch
for it in particular.
3. Letting the nose drop after passing the 90° point; losing too
much altitude and gaining excess airspeed.
4. Failure to roll out on the original heading; having the wing tip
well ahead, or well behind, the reference when the maneuver is
completed.

Evaluation and Review.
Review each barrel roll briefly in the air, and have the trainee
use the model on the ground. This one can be hard to "see," so go
over it again as necessary after getting on the ground.

By the time a half-dozen barrel rolls have been practiced, the
average trainee should be oriented throughout the maneuver even
though he may still have minor problems of heading and symmetry.
After a dozen rolls he should be starting to work on a constant roll
rate and starting to ease his heading problems. After several
hundred, he may begin to be satisfied with his barrel rolls but will
realize that constant practice is required.

Unquote.................

But John...you really should look at that picture.

Bob

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:02:01 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote:

----clip----

But John...you really should look at that picture.

----clip----

OK. I reconfigured my computer and subscribed to
"alt.binaries.pictures.avation" and down loaded the last 50 posts and
don't find anything from you.

I'll go back and download everything from day one to look for your
picture and then blow away the other thousands I down loaded.

Since I know what a barrel roll is and how to do same and have done
then for many many years, why should l look at a picture you drew and
if done as described by your expert I seriously doubt if anyone could
fly ???

I think I'll let you experts have the floor to do with as you choose.

I'm scheduled for a kidney x-ray tomorrow and need to go in refreshed.
(No muzzle loaders tonight - we used to call them booze berries G)

Big John

Bob

Found and subscribed to alt.binaries.pictures.avation and down
loaded all the postings in that Group. About 500 or so. Sat down and
went through them untiL I found your posting. Drilled down and finally
got the picture you are so hot about.

My comments, No one could do a barrel roll as depicted in your
picture. You show a single plane (not airplane) picture and maneuver
is done along an extended length of airspace.

You don't enter at 90 degrees to the desired direction of flight. Your
picture looks more like a single leaf of a four leaf clover.

Maybe this is what you call a barrel roll today but sure isn't the
classic maneuver.

On your query on my credentials in this post. I have answered that in
another posting. However to follow along that line since you won't let
it go, who are you to question my credentials? You sound like some
'want a be' that's never spent time on his back maybe not even a
pilot?. I may well have more inverted time than your total time????.

I can do a double emmelman in a F-80/T-33 and a slow roll in aT-6/SNJ
without the engine cutting out when inverted. Also I can do a loop in
a T-6/SNJ starting from zero indicated airspeed. Want to try any of
those maneuvers? Lets see your buddy Kershner do those.He's got T-33
time so ask him if he ever did a double emmelman in it and if so how
he did it (airspeed, altitude, G's, etc)? I've got thousands of hours
of tail wheel time and never ground looped or let one of my students
ground loop on any kind of a field and in any type of weather/wind.

BOb and I may well have the highest tail wheel time of any on this
group and he's got a lot???

Among others I have instructed both Chinese and Norwegian Air Force
students and was awarded wings from both countries, which I am
authorized by our government to wear (you need permission you know).

I am a member of the caterpillar club (

When do you want me to quit??????

The more we talk the more I disagree with you so need to shut things
down before we get violent G

If you want, take the last shot (some people just have to) and that's
it.

And the best to thee from the wee ones.

Big John


On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:02:01 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote:

Big John wrote

Talk me through a loop doing a Barrel Roll. We must be using
different words or maneuvers?

John, have you looked at the barrel roll picture that I e-mailed
you and posted on alt.binaries.pictures.aviation?
If not, further discussion will be of no use.

Have you checked the "Willian Kershner" web site and read the
author's credentials?
If not, you just leave us wondering "who-the-hell" is Big John,
and what credence should we give to his unsupported assertions?
Mr. Kershner owns and operates an Aerobatic Flight School and
has authored the book, "The Basic Aerobatic Manual" which as he
points out, was an offshoot (with permission) of the manual he
helped write for Cessna Aircraft in 1969.

First let me try a different set of words for a GA barrel roll.

Here are William Kershner's words that accompanied the diagram of
the barrel roll in his The Flight Instructor's Manual in which he
devotes all of chapter 5 (66 pages) to aerobatic instruction.

Quote..............or should I say OCR'ed

THE BARREL ROLL
• Preparation. It's almost impossible to draw a barrel roll
on the chalkboard, but a model will give the desired results.
Have the trainee study the references.

•Explanation. The barrel roll is a precise maneuver in which
the airplane is rolled around an imaginary point 45° to
the original flight path. A positive-g level is maintained
throughout the maneuver, and the ball in the turn indicator
should stay in the middle.

You may wonder why the barrel roll is taught this late,
since it appears to be so simple. Well, it is a precise maneuver
requiring particular airplane attitudes at particular reference
points, which is difficult for the average trainee to do properly
at first.

This maneuver might be considered an exaggeration of the
wingover, but instead of starting to shallow the bank at the 90°
position, the pilot must steepen it continually until the airplane
has rolled 360° and is back on the original heading. The rate of
roll must be much greater than that used for the wingover
because the airplane must be in a vertical bank at 45° of turn,
and it must be inverted at 90° of turn. The roll and turn is
continued until the airplane is headed in the original direction with
the wings level. Compare the barrel roll in Fig. 23-12 with the same
view of the wingover in Fig. 20-7.

From behind the maneuver looks as though the airplane is being
flown around the outside of a barrel. This is a very good maneuver
for gaining confidence and keeping oriented while flying inverted in
balanced flight.
Good coordination is required to do the barrel roll properly and
the trainee will show an improvement in that area after a session of
barrel rolls.

The barrel roll is generally more difficult and precise than the
aileron roll, and he may have to work on this one awhile.

Why-
The barrel roll is one of the best maneuvers for improving
orientation.

Unlike the other acrobatic maneuvers covered thus far, the barrel
roll requires a constantly changing bank and pitch (with attendant
changing airspeed) and a radical change in heading (90°) while the
airplane is rolling. The average trainee probably will be looking at
the wing tip at a time when he should be checking the nose, or vice
versa.
When he is able to stay well oriented in the barrel roll, he is ready
to move on to the reverse Cuban eight or reverse cloverleaf.

How-
You might use the following explanation, or develop your own:
(1) Make sure the area is clear, then pick a reference on the
horizon off the wing tip as in the wingover and lazy eight.
(2) Set the throttle to low cruise rpm and ease the nose over to
pick-up about 10 K more than used for the wingover or set up
the airspeed used for a loop, whichever is higher. Power
adjustment should not be necessary during the maneuver. You
might have some of your sharper trainees apply full power as
the airplane approaches inverted and then remind them to
throttle back as the airspeed picks up in the last part of the
maneuver.
(3) Smoothly pull the nose up and start a coordinated climbing turn
(note that it will have to be at a much faster rate than was
used for the wingover) toward the reference point. (Assume that
at first the roll will be to the left.)
(4) When the nose is 45° from the original heading, it should be
at its highest pitch attitude and the left bank should be
vertical.
(5) When the nose is at 90° from the original heading, you should
be looking directly at the reference point that was originally
off the wing tipfrom a completely inverted position
(momentarily).
(6) When the airplane heading is again 45° from the original, the
bank is vertical but you will be in a right bank as far as the
ground is concerned; that is, the right wing is pointing
straight down at this instant of roll. The nose will be at its
lowest pitch attitude at this point.
(7) The roll is continued to wings-level flight as the nose is
raised back to the cruise attitude.

The maneuver must be symmetrical; the nose must go as far above the
horizon as below. The barrel roll requires definite checkpoints to
ensure that the airplane is at the correct attitude throughout. It is
interesting to note that if the barrel roll is to the left, all of
the airplane's path is to the left of the original line of flight and
the airplane's nose is always pointed to the left of the original
flight line (until it merges again at the completion of the
maneuver). The opposite occurs, naturally, for the barrel roll to the
right.

Another method of doing a barrel roll is to pick a reference on the
horizon, turn the airplane 45° to the reference point, and proceed to
make a wide roll around this real point. One disadvantage of this
method for the newcomer is that it depends on the pilot's own
judgment of how large the orbit around the point should be. For an
introduction to the maneuver, the first method is usually better, but
you may prefer the second and work out your own techniques of
instructing it.

Demonstration.
Try not to lose the reference point yourself while demonstrating
this one. You may find your explanation is not keeping up with the
airplane, which usually results in sputtering and stuttering while
the maneuver proceeds to its foregone conclusion -and then you have
to do a new demonstration. Don't worry, this will happen plenty of
times during your career of instructing aerobatics -when your mouth
can't keep up with your brain or the maneuver-and it can ease tension
if you react to it with humor.

Usually the trainee is surprised to see the same wing tip back on the
reference point and may confess that, like the first snap roll, the
earth and sky were blurred and he had no idea where the reference was
during the maneuver.

Practice.
You may rest assured the trainee will "lose" the reference point
during the first couple of barrel rolls. He'll usually stare over the
nose, seeingnothing but blue sky or ground and not really seeing the
point at all.

Common errors during barrel rolls include these:
1. Not pulling the nose high enough in the first 45° of the
maneuver, which means that the highest and lowest nose positions
are not symmetrical to the horizon.
2. Not maintaining a constant rate of roll. Usually things are fine
at the 45° position; the nose is at its highest pitch and the
bank is vertical.
As you approach the position of 90° of turn you will probably
find that he is not going to be completely inverted at that
point and will have to rush things a bit to make it. The usual
reason is that he did not maintain a constant rate of roll.
Remember that the nose is up and the airspeed is slower in this
segment of the maneuver, so the controls must be deflected more
to get the same rate. This is where coordination comes in. Watch
for it in particular.
3. Letting the nose drop after passing the 90° point; losing too
much altitude and gaining excess airspeed.
4. Failure to roll out on the original heading; having the wing tip
well ahead, or well behind, the reference when the maneuver is
completed.

Evaluation and Review.
Review each barrel roll briefly in the air, and have the trainee
use the model on the ground. This one can be hard to "see," so go
over it again as necessary after getting on the ground.

By the time a half-dozen barrel rolls have been practiced, the
average trainee should be oriented throughout the maneuver even
though he may still have minor problems of heading and symmetry.
After a dozen rolls he should be starting to work on a constant roll
rate and starting to ease his heading problems. After several
hundred, he may begin to be satisfied with his barrel rolls but will
realize that constant practice is required.

Unquote.................

But John...you really should look at that picture.

Bob

In article , Big John wrote:
On a 172,. I'd do a barrel roll in the bird but not a slow roll or
aileron roll .Either would over stress the bird 99 times out of a
hundred.

Really?

All the eileron rolls I've ever done have been distinctly low-G
manoevres. Dive a little to gain entry speed, pull the nose up to
about 30 degrees above the horizon, then full aileron until the world
comes the right way up again, at which point you'll be about 20 degrees
nose down. The G-meter has never shown more than 1.5G after
an aileron roll for me, and that was done in the initial pull-up.

I thought a C172 in the utility category was good for 4.2G, not 1.5G!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Dylan

From my good book (Owners Manual Model 172 and Skyhawk)

Normal category

Gross weight --- 2300#

Flaps up

+3.8 G
-1.52 G

Normal category is non acrobatic

You can do stalls (not whip stalls) and are limited to a max angle of
bank of 60 degrees.

Utility Category

Max gross weight --- 2000#

Flaps up

+4.4 G
-1.76 G

No aerobatic maneuvers are approved except those listed.

Chandelles
Lazy Eights
Steep Turns
Spins
Stall (Except Whip Stalls)

From these figures you can see that it would be touch and go if you
rolled the bird inverted. Of course the figures given are not ultimate
so might only bend things a little )

Big John

* Added note. "In the execution of all maneuvers, avoid abrupt use of
controls."



On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:13:29 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:

In article , Big John wrote:
On a 172,. I'd do a barrel roll in the bird but not a slow roll or
aileron roll .Either would over stress the bird 99 times out of a
hundred.

Really?

All the eileron rolls I've ever done have been distinctly low-G
manoevres. Dive a little to gain entry speed, pull the nose up to
about 30 degrees above the horizon, then full aileron until the world
comes the right way up again, at which point you'll be about 20 degrees
nose down. The G-meter has never shown more than 1.5G after
an aileron roll for me, and that was done in the initial pull-up.

I thought a C172 in the utility category was good for 4.2G, not 1.5G!

In article ,
Big John wrote:

[...]

3. An aileron roll is just laying the aileron over (normally full
aileron) and letting bird roll. Depending on type of aircraft (fighter
or GA) the nose makes a circle around a point. Fighters can do at
cruise with little or no nose above the horizon. GA requires a start
with the nose above the horizon due to slower rate of roll and bird
ending up nose low because no other control input to hold nose up
while inverted is used

The question for me -- and what prompted my earlier posting(s) -- is
whether it's possible to do a standard aileron roll and get negative G's
(or non-positive G's, to be precise). The puny GA planes I fly all have
positive G forces all the way around an aileron roll (unless you do
something funny with elevator and / or rudder), but is that true of all
aircraft?

Hamish

1. A 'barrel roll' is a roll where (if done properly) you as a
passenger, with your eyes closed, can not tell you did a roll. The
ball stays centered and if one 'G' is maintained,

I suspect there is more than one definition of a "barrel roll."

The ex-Air Force P-47 pilot I've flown with does a peculiar corkscrew
barrel roll that bears virtually no resemblance to the one I was
taught at Pensacola.

The barrel roll I was taught, and like to do, cannot be done at a
constant 1 G.

There is positive acceleration all the way around (see my post just
above), that is, the stick is back, and the nose keeps coming "up,"
all the way around.

(The ball is in the center all the way around, too, and a glass of
water will not spill.)

That positive acceleration means that more than 1 G is experienced
during those parts of the roll in which the airplane is essentially
upright.

vince norris

Scott Lowrey wrote:
If I'm crusing along at 100 KIAS in a 172 in clear air and I roll left
while maintaining neutral rudder, what will happen if I don't
neutralize the ailerons?


WOW. I was away for several days and I think I'd see two replies to my
post before I left.

Thanks for all the replies - you guys are easy to get going but never
boring... well, usually never. :+)

Anyway, I thought about Vne being a problem later. Seems like the right
thing to do (after drinking my cup of water, tying a string to the
panel, plugging the fuel vents, and hoping I have enough oil) would be
to nose up a bit prior to the roll and push forward while inverted.

I know this isn't the plane for this kind of maneuver and I have no
intention of trying it. Sure would like to do some acro someday,
though. Maybe when I save enough to by that Stearman I've always wanted.

-Scott