Question: "Overhead Entry to Downwind?"

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...

The 45 entry to downwind is not "in the pattern". It is the entry to the
pattern
and does nopt have to be a left turn.


The regulation does not require turns "in the pattern" to be to the left, it
requires the pilot of an airplane approaching to land at an airport without
an operating control tower to make all turns to the left. The 45 degree
entry to downwind violates the regulation.

"Mike O'Malley" wrote in message
...

Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is
paraphrased
from memory).


It isn't. The 45 degree entry to the downwind is illegal.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...
|
| "Mike O'Malley" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the
downwind"
| AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is
| paraphrased
| from memory).
|
|
| It isn't. The 45 degree entry to the downwind is illegal.

No, it is not. The regulation says "unless otherwise authorized," and the 45
degree entry is specifically authorized as a legal maneuver in a document
signed by the Administrator (the AIM). The AIM may not be regulatory, but
following the procedures in the AIM provides a safe harbor and use of those
procedures is to be presumed by the FAA to be in compliance with all federal
regulations.

I'm sitting here looking at my handy-dandy little PDQ pattern calculator...

For left traffic, it shows a 45 degree entry with a right to downwind, a
left to base, and a left to final. (Obviously, for right traffic, everything
is reversed).

I'm still a wannabe, but everything I have read indicates this is the
correct method for flying a pattern. Are there any F.A.R.s that indicate
otherwise?




"Mike O'Malley" wrote in message
...
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

You are allowed to enter the traffic pattern any way you like.


Well, not just any way, there is a restriction on the direction of
turns.

Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is
paraphrased
from memory). In fact, if one were to only make left turns in the traffic
pattern, an overhead approach would be one of the ONLY ways to enter the
pattern. Of course, one very few people are looking for. :-)

--
Mike

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

I'm sitting here looking at my handy-dandy little PDQ pattern
calculator...

For left traffic, it shows a 45 degree entry with a right to downwind, a
left to base, and a left to final. (Obviously, for right traffic,
everything
is reversed).

I'm still a wannabe, but everything I have read indicates this is the
correct method for flying a pattern. Are there any F.A.R.s that indicate
otherwise?


Yes.


§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G
airspace.

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person
operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G
airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an
operating control tower in Class G airspace --

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to
the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual
markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case
the pilot must make all turns to the right; and

(2) Each pilot of a helicopter must avoid the flow of fixed-wing
aircraft.


§91.127 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class E airspace.

(a) Unless otherwise required by part 93 of this chapter or unless
otherwise authorized or required by the ATC facility having jurisdiction
over the Class E airspace area, each person operating an aircraft on or in
the vicinity of an airport in a Class E airspace area must comply with the
requirements of §91.126.

The December "Aviation Safety" had an article by Aviation Consumer Editor
Paul Bertorelli on this very subject.

Bob Gardner

"Harry Shin" wrote in message
...
Hi Guys,

My father and I were returning to Petaluma (O69), called in on the 45 to
downwind and were just about to turn downwind when a flight of three
experimentals called in that they were set up for their "overhead entry".
They were flying above pattern altitude on the runway heading, proceeded
to
make a diving 180 turn to downwind, inside our line.

Two of them jumped ahead of us, while the third resigned himself to
following our Citabria. I guess we really messed up their spectacular
approach and possible formation landing... (yawn)

So, I'm wondering if their overhead approach to an un-controlled field is
"approved"? Petaluma can get pretty busy on weekends, and I feel their
grandstanding lead to some concern and un-necessary avoidance
manuevering...

Harry Shin
Citabria N5064K, Sonerai I 'a building

For those arriving on the non-pattern side of the runway its the best
way to do it. Its also important to do if the winds are unknown
(because you can see the sock). The maneuver should be done above
pattern altitude, with a long right turn (assuming left traffic) into
the 45. The overhead entry "should" always drop you into the 45.


"Harry Shin" wrote in message ...
Hi Guys,

My father and I were returning to Petaluma (O69), called in on the 45 to
downwind and were just about to turn downwind when a flight of three
experimentals called in that they were set up for their "overhead entry".
They were flying above pattern altitude on the runway heading, proceeded to
make a diving 180 turn to downwind, inside our line.

Two of them jumped ahead of us, while the third resigned himself to
following our Citabria. I guess we really messed up their spectacular
approach and possible formation landing... (yawn)

So, I'm wondering if their overhead approach to an un-controlled field is
"approved"? Petaluma can get pretty busy on weekends, and I feel their
grandstanding lead to some concern and un-necessary avoidance manuevering...

Harry Shin
Citabria N5064K, Sonerai I 'a building

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
m...
For those arriving on the non-pattern side of the runway its the best
way to do it. Its also important to do if the winds are unknown
(because you can see the sock). The maneuver should be done above
pattern altitude, with a long right turn (assuming left traffic) into
the 45. The overhead entry "should" always drop you into the 45.

That's not the typical overhead entry. The overhead entry is an upwind leg
with a 180 degree left turn (assuming left hand traffic) to the downwind
leg.



"Harry Shin" wrote in message
...
Hi Guys,

My father and I were returning to Petaluma (O69), called in on the 45 to
downwind and were just about to turn downwind when a flight of three
experimentals called in that they were set up for their "overhead
entry".
They were flying above pattern altitude on the runway heading, proceeded
to
make a diving 180 turn to downwind, inside our line.

Two of them jumped ahead of us, while the third resigned himself to
following our Citabria. I guess we really messed up their spectacular
approach and possible formation landing... (yawn)

So, I'm wondering if their overhead approach to an un-controlled field
is
"approved"? Petaluma can get pretty busy on weekends, and I feel their
grandstanding lead to some concern and un-necessary avoidance
manuevering...

Harry Shin
Citabria N5064K, Sonerai I 'a building

So, I'm wondering if their overhead approach to an un-controlled field is
"approved"?

As I am sure the libertarians on this newsgroup will tell you, there
is no approved approach, in the sense that certain approaches are okay
and others are not.

And it is local custom at some airports to descend into the traffic
pattern. Personally, I have never seen it, and I hope that I never
will. (I don't even particularly care for the mid-field crossover

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver wrote:

And it is local custom at some airports to descend into the traffic
pattern. Personally, I have never seen it, and I hope that I never
will. (I don't even particularly care for the mid-field crossover

In my last 1000 flights, I'd estimate that 90% include a
descent into the pattern and 60% include a mid field
crossover. It's pretty difficult not to descend, even in
the pattern, when flying a glider, and when a mid field
crossover is standard at your airport to avoid the ridge,
then that's what everyone does. Keep your eyes open out
there.

Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
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