when does a "remain clear" instruction end?

"Arden Prinz" wrote in message

.......That brings up a question --- when does the
"remain clear of class C airspace" instruction end?

...I figured that
since he called my by tail number and was clearly communicating with
me and didn't assign any vectors or repeat his direction to remain
clear, that it was now understood that I could enter.

When you're talking about airspace entry, etc., pilot/controller interaction
is *never* "understood", or "presumed". Clear and direct statements are
used.

The controller
didn't give any indication that I had done anything wrong, but I want
to be sure that I understand this for the future. So ... if I'm told
to remain clear in the future, WHEN does that end?

When you hear the phrase '....cleared to enter...', or '....cleared
into...', or some such. The "remain clear" instruction is so that you don't
come barging into the class C immediately after takeoff, before the
controller has a chance to identify and coordinate you. He probably didn't
make an issue of it because he was about to clear you to turn in anyway
[speculation on my part.].

The basic thrust of your analysis is correct for most controlled airspace,
John; but the clinker in the ashes here is that when a class C controller
calls your tail number, it is per the rules THE permission to enter unless
he specifically instructs you to remain clear...
What the AIM does not make it clear is that after being told to stand clear,
any subsequent tail number call, and especially with a phrase like, 'radar
contact established', barometer setting, etc., is clearance to enter per the
rule unless he repeats the instruction to remain clear, or assigns you a
heading, etc.. A point the FAA ought to clarify... I would, like you,
prefer that the AIM require the controller to say, ". . . cleared . . . " It
does not, that I can find...
denny

"John Gaquin" wrote in When you hear the phrase
'....cleared to enter...', or '....cleared
into...', or some such.

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message

.....when a class C controller
calls your tail number, it is per the rules THE permission to enter unless
he specifically instructs you to remain clear...

I stand corrected. I didn't (and still don't) recall that detail, but then
again, I never flew anything but IFR after about 1982. Doesn't sound like
it makes much sense, to me, but if that's what's written.....

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...

The basic thrust of your analysis is correct for most controlled airspace,
John; but the clinker in the ashes here is that when a class C controller
calls your tail number, it is per the rules THE permission to enter unless
he specifically instructs you to remain clear...
What the AIM does not make it clear is that after being told to stand
clear,
any subsequent tail number call, and especially with a phrase like, 'radar
contact established', barometer setting, etc., is clearance to enter per
the
rule unless he repeats the instruction to remain clear, or assigns you a
heading, etc..


The reason the AIM doesn't say that is because that's not the way it is.
Once told to remain clear you must remain clear until receipt of an
instruction that permits entry.

In article et,
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

The reason the AIM doesn't say that is because that's not the way it is.
Once told to remain clear you must remain clear until receipt of an
instruction that permits entry.


The O.P. stated that after recieving a beacon code and being told to
remain clear the controller then called him back and asked some
questions. That sounds like he was setting up a progress strip for VFR
advisories for him. He said he thought the controller also may have
acknowleged radar contact. I think an acknowlegement of radar contact
would then permit entry to Class C. All you need to enter Class C is a
Mode C transponder and two-way radio communications. You do not need to
be "cleared into" Class C.

Would you not agree?

"Tom Fleischman" wrote in message
rthlink.net...

The O.P. stated that after recieving a beacon code and being told to
remain clear the controller then called him back and asked some
questions. That sounds like he was setting up a progress strip for VFR
advisories for him. He said he thought the controller also may have
acknowleged radar contact. I think an acknowlegement of radar contact
would then permit entry to Class C. All you need to enter Class C is a
Mode C transponder and two-way radio communications. You do not
need to be "cleared into" Class C.

Would you not agree?


"Radar contact" does not override the instruction to remain clear of the
Class C airspace.