Going through ATL

"PhyrePhox" wrote in message
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There is a guy working the ATL approach control that is just
incredible. I was flying in there one night on United and listening
in on channel 9 as he kept calling out flights and vectors one after
the other never missing a beat. When we turned base I looked out the
window and there must have been close to 100 other planes in the
pattern behind us heading for both runways.

I can remember thinking, how does he keep everybody straight in his
head? It was very cool.

And just think, as good as he was, the best three controllers at Atlanta
Approach are all women. No kidding.

Chip, ZTL

The instant I read that Chip, a whole host of PMS / NOW scenarios thundered
through my head... I'm still snickering typical male misogynist pig
reaction:

Anyway, I have been worked by some sharp lady controllers over the years...
Skill doesn't depend upon gender...

denny
"Chip Jones" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"PhyrePhox" wrote in message
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There is a guy working the ATL approach control that is just
incredible. I was flying in there one night on United and listening
in on channel 9 as he kept calling out flights and vectors one after
the other never missing a beat. When we turned base I looked out the
window and there must have been close to 100 other planes in the
pattern behind us heading for both runways.

I can remember thinking, how does he keep everybody straight in his
head? It was very cool.

And just think, as good as he was, the best three controllers at Atlanta
Approach are all women. No kidding.

Chip, ZTL

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
The instant I read that Chip, a whole host of PMS / NOW scenarios
thundered
through my head... I'm still snickering typical male misogynist pig
reaction:

Anyway, I have been worked by some sharp lady controllers over the
years...
Skill doesn't depend upon gender...
IIRC, tests have show that women are better at such tasks then men. Also,
IIRC, FlightSafety (?) did tests on men vs. women pilots; women were better
at handing the plane, but men were better at emergency procedures. Why might
that be?

Tom

Have you gone shopping with a woman? They can't make up their minds.

A man goes and buys and leaves.

Jumping into the air.

In an emergency, women have to 'shop around' and waste time.

Men just look at the problem and take action to fix it.

Big John

Yes hon, I know you made the couch up for me to sleep on tonight (.



On Thus, 4 Mar 2004 15:15:46 -0700, "Tom Six killer"
wrote:


"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
The instant I read that Chip, a whole host of PMS / NOW scenarios
thundered
through my head... I'm still snickering typical male misogynist pig
reaction:

Anyway, I have been worked by some sharp lady controllers over the
years...
Skill doesn't depend upon gender...
IIRC, tests have show that women are better at such tasks then men. Also,
IIRC, FlightSafety (?) did tests on men vs. women pilots; women were better
at handing the plane, but men were better at emergency procedures. Why might
that be?

There is a guy working the ATL approach control that is just
incredible.

Which is the direct opposite of what happens in Vegas any time a cloud
passes by. This week, several times, there were ground delays into
Vegas. Air Shuttle, an America West little guy that flys RJ's, was
given wheels up times of 90 minutes after the proposed time. When I
called flow to find out what was going on he said it was due to low
ceilings. He said to hold on while he pulled up the current weather, I
also pulled it up as he did. The current METAR was 40SCT 60BKN 10 -R.
With 4 runways the best they can do in these horrible conditions is to
land 32 airplanes an hour. All of us on frequency had a good laugh
about the putz's running LAS airspace. Except the Air Shuttle crew, who
now couldn't leave until 12:10 am.

"Chip Jones" wrote in message And just think, as good as he was, the best
three controllers at Atlanta Approach are all women. No kidding.

Why is it that the lady controllers with the sweetest voices turn out to be
butt ugly?

Unfortunately there are bad eggs in every crowd. I was ferrying a Caravan
into PDK from the southeast a few months back. When I asked the controller
for clearance through the class Bravo, he replied that they never give VFR
clearances to anyone. He stated that ATL was the busiest airport in the
country and that I shouldn't even think about it, ever. He came across as
arrogant. I replied that it would have been nice if he had made that known
before I had to blow out my passenger's ears in a rapid descent. He replied,
"Remain clear of the Class B".

That didn't sit well with me. However I am humble, shy, and bashful. So, I
told him I wasn't from the area and had no knowledge of the local
traditions. I was from Miami, which has more operations per runway than ATL
and I routinely fly in there VFR. Then I asked if perhaps that was because
the MIA controllers were better.

D.

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...
"Chip Jones" wrote in message And just think, as good as he was, the
best
three controllers at Atlanta Approach are all women. No kidding.

Why is it that the lady controllers with the sweetest voices turn out to
be
butt ugly?

LOL!


Unfortunately there are bad eggs in every crowd. I was ferrying a Caravan
into PDK from the southeast a few months back. When I asked the controller
for clearance through the class Bravo, he replied that they never give VFR
clearances to anyone. He stated that ATL was the busiest airport in the
country and that I shouldn't even think about it, ever. He came across as
arrogant. I replied that it would have been nice if he had made that known
before I had to blow out my passenger's ears in a rapid descent. He
replied,
"Remain clear of the Class B".

Well whoever he was, he was full of hooey. ATL/A80 routinely issues VFR
clearances through the Class B.


That didn't sit well with me. However I am humble, shy, and bashful. So, I
told him I wasn't from the area and had no knowledge of the local
traditions. I was from Miami, which has more operations per runway than
ATL
and I routinely fly in there VFR. Then I asked if perhaps that was because
the MIA controllers were better.

Well, two things are going on in Atlanta-land. First of all, Columbus GA
and Macon GA Tracons have been consolidated into the Atlanta A80 VLT (Very
Large Tracon). All of the radar controllers from Columbus and Macon got a
big pay raise and then moved to Peachtree City where the new A80 Tracon is.
Subsequently over the last two years, all but three of these folks have been
washed out of the Atlanta Tracon training program and have been shipped out
to lower level facilities. There was a *lot* of rancor and hard feeling for
many of these people, because they were happy at CSG or MCN, were even
happier getting a 40-thousand dollar raise when they were consolidated with
ATL, and are now very unhappy getting shipped off to the boonies as a
training failure. A lot of this rancor came through over the radios and the
land-lines.

Second, Atlanta is a busy place, but it isn't the busiest. I saw somewhere
that Atlanta Tracon was the 5th busiest Tracon in the country and Atlanta
Tower was the 2nd busiest Tower in the country (Behind ORD, I think).
However, there is a HUGE controversy going down right now regarding Tracon
controller pay in Atlanta-land. Controllers get paid based on a scale that
runs from ATC-6 (I think) for the little towers to ATC-14. This pay scale
takes into account both volume and complexity in a formula to classify a
facility's pa, and it sets concrete benchmarks/goalposts for each pay grade,
including ATC-13 ans ATC-14.

The super busy places like Atlanta Approach/Tower, Chicago Approach, New
York Approach, SCT, and other busy towers and Tracons, are currently ATC-12
facilities. So are 8 of the nation's 20 ARTCC's. ATC-12 down here in
Atlanta runs out to around $150,000.00 including all of the differentials,
COLA's and mandatory OT. Currently, no ATC facility is getting paid at
ATC-13 or ATC-14 grades even though the controller pay scale goes that high.

Atlanta Approach used to be located in a radar room at the base of the ATL
tower until a few years ago. Controllers assigned to the ATL facility
worked both the tower cab and also the Tracon radar room. Then the FAA
decided to build a new state-of-the-art Very Large Tracon (aka "Big Assed
Tracon" or "BAT") for the Atlanta area. The plan was to build the
facility, officially designated A80 and then begin consolidation of several
smaller Tracons into the new facility in order to save money.

The controllers union (NATCA) saw the writing on the wall. Thee FAA was
giving the A80 designator to the new facility, while retaining the ATL
designator for the tower cab. Obviously FAA had plans to eventually split
the Tracon from the Tower, just like in Chicago and elsewhere. NATCA
negotiated an MOU with the FAA saying that for an extended period of time
(for "X" many years, I don't know how many), no matter what, the personnel
assigned to Atlanta Tower/Atlanta Approach would be in the same bargaining
unit and would work both at the tower and at the Tracon. FAA signed the
agreement.

Consequently, the complexity-index associated with the combined ATL/A80
facility began to climb, especially when CSG and MCN Tracons were
consolidated into Atlanta Approach. In 2002, the ATL/A80 Tracon crossed the
complexity/volume level to become ATC-13. This was largely because Atlanta
controllers not only worked in the 5th busiest Tracon but also in the 2nd
busiest (and at times the busiest) Tower cab. This gave them a higher
workload index than any other contollers in USA. They began to clamor for
their ATC-13 pay. FAA refused to live up to it's pay agreement, especially
since places like New York and Southern Cal are clearly busier Tracons at
ATC-12. After a year or more of wrangling, a period where even NATCA teams
from Chicago, New York, Southern Cal etc came down to try to invalidate
Atlanta'a claims to ATC-13, FAA finally validated the ATC-13 level for
Atlanta Approach. However, rather than give Atlanta controllers the
agreed-upon regulated pay raise to ATC-13, FAA decided the time had come to
split the Tracon from the Tower to avoid paying ATC-13. FAA subsequently
reneged on their MOU with NATCA concerning the A80/ATL facility (apparently
even going so far as to claim that FAA Administrator Jane Garvey didn't
represent the US Government back when the A80 MOU was signed, hehehe).
Right now, you have a lot of ****ed off controllers in Atlanta who see
themselves as victims of the latest Marion Blakey back-stab. There may soon
be a lot of bad eggs, perhaps a case of the workforce imitating Miss
Manegement.

Chip, ZTL

Chip Jones wrote:

Well, two things are going on in Atlanta-land. First of all

Chip,

this is very interesting reading, esp. since Pilots rarely getting a
picture of what's going on at ATC.

Thanks for sharing.

Jens

--
I don't accept any emails right now. Usenet replys only.

"Capt.Doug" wrote:
Why is it that the lady controllers with the sweetest voices
turn out to be butt ugly?

When I visited ZTL a few years ago, all three lady controllers I met
were hotties. Now, every time I talk to a female ZTL controller I get a
warm feeling.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"Capt.Doug" wrote:
Why is it that the lady controllers with the sweetest voices
turn out to be butt ugly?

When I visited ZTL a few years ago, all three lady controllers I met
were hotties. Now, every time I talk to a female ZTL controller I get a
warm feeling.
--

Yep, ZTL has some absolutley drop-dead gorgeous, kick-ass, sweet talking
female controllers. They give good heading too. :-)


Chip, ZTL