Who's flying out of the higest elev airport?

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...
Sounds like a nightmare to me. I've zeroed the needle on occasion for
demonstration work, but I just don't get the logic behind the QFE lobby.
It's just one more thing to worry about changing, and that can lead to
serious problems in the air. I'm a standardization buff. Making as much a
constant as opposed to a variable when it comes to flying has always
seemed
to me the best way to go with things. Having several MORE ways to use an
altimeter just adds to normal altimeter confusion; it;s just one more
thing
that someone can forget to set or change or figure out.

Others have explained that the use of QFE works in the UK because there are
few or no airfields above 2000ft (and tropical depressions are rare). I've
flown there with instructors who knew what we do in the US, and took care to
explain what they are doing and why. Resetting from QNH to QFE *in the
vicinity of an airport* is part of the procedure when receiving the ATIS or
whatever advisory is available, just as it is for us in the US (I always
check, and reset if necessary, when hearing an ATIS - don't you?) and the
QFE is one phrase in the report so it's not easy to forget. The extra step
for a student is more than repaid by not having to do the arithmetic in the
pattern.

You're a standardization buff, and it sounds like a standard procedure to
me. It's just part of the approach checklist. And, if you count them up,
there is one more variable (twist the altimeter) and a lot more constants
(pattern-related altitudes).

Remember also that many UK pilots get pretty quickly into the flight levels,
so there's a need to twist to QNE as well.

-- David Brooks

How do you do that? Is there weather reporting at all airports? I can see
setting to field elevation if you're returning to your original point of
departure (I did that all the time in my ultralight), but how do you set it
at a different field without knowing either the Kollsman setting or your
height above ground? Guestimate?
mike regish

----- Original Message -----
From: "ShawnD2112"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: Who's flying out of the higest elev airport?



Here in the UK, setting the altimeter to field elevation, QFE, before
takeoff is not only allowed, it's taught and expected. Likewise, when
approaching the airfield, you're expected to reset the altimeter to that
airfield's QFE in the pattern. In the States, we would think that would
lead to all kinds of altitude-related accidents.

Not guestimate. Most airfields have some sort of radio control or
information from the ground. Standard procedure is to give all arriving
aircraft the active runway and QFE so you've got the data and a reminder to
reset your altimeter. If there's no radio manned to give you the
information, you just stick with your enroute QNH and do the mental
arithmetic just like in the States. It sounds daft, and I thought it was
when I first started flying here, but you soon get used to it. I don't
really have a problem and, actually, since I spend most of my time in a
Pitts below 3,000 practicing sequences, I usually leave it on QFE in the
local area because I'm more concerned about my height above ground and it's
pretty flat around the airport. In fact, depending on where I'm flying to
in the UK, the land can be so flat that I just leave it on QFE enroute. I
fly around other airports and generally keep out of everyones' way so it's
not ever been a problem. I also only fly in pretty good VMC, so the actual
altimeter reading in my case isn't terribly critical in most cases.

Shawn


"mike regish" wrote in message
news:LaQ3c.742$bP2.13474@attbi_s53...
How do you do that? Is there weather reporting at all airports? I can see
setting to field elevation if you're returning to your original point of
departure (I did that all the time in my ultralight), but how do you set
it
at a different field without knowing either the Kollsman setting or your
height above ground? Guestimate?
mike regish

----- Original Message -----
From: "ShawnD2112"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: Who's flying out of the higest elev airport?



Here in the UK, setting the altimeter to field elevation, QFE, before
takeoff is not only allowed, it's taught and expected. Likewise, when
approaching the airfield, you're expected to reset the altimeter to that
airfield's QFE in the pattern. In the States, we would think that would
lead to all kinds of altitude-related accidents.

Dudley,

if it's still useful for the number game ;*) ...
Here at LAM (7171ft, for 30.54) I get 4850ft for 28.1

Cheers
Chris

PP-ASEL
Student Glider Pilot
New Mexico

Dudley Henriques wrote:
Hey, you mountain types out there :-) I'm doing some research on a safety
issue and need your help . I need a post from someone flying out of Colorado
somewhere, preferably Telluride or a field very close to Telluride. I need
as close to the highest elevation in the U.S. as I can get.
I'm not dealing with this issue in the context of right or wrong as it
pertains to mountain flying. I need to know if the Kollsman window in your
altimeters has a wide enough range to allow you, IF YOU DESIRED TO DO SO, to
set your altimeters to 0 elevation on a consistent basis before take off at
your field instead of a MSL setting. Again, I'm only interested in the
possibility, not the right and wrongs involved with doing this.
Thanks,
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

In article et,
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

Hey, you mountain types out there :-) I'm doing some research on a safety
issue and need your help . I need a post from someone flying out of Colorado
somewhere, preferably Telluride or a field very close to Telluride. I need
as close to the highest elevation in the U.S. as I can get.
I'm not dealing with this issue in the context of right or wrong as it
pertains to mountain flying. I need to know if the Kollsman window in your
altimeters has a wide enough range to allow you, IF YOU DESIRED TO DO SO, to
set your altimeters to 0 elevation on a consistent basis before take off at
your field instead of a MSL setting. Again, I'm only interested in the
possibility, not the right and wrongs involved with doing this.
Thanks,
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt



I think AAL was the last major to set QFE for takeoff and landings. They
special ordered altimeters that would handle Mexico City.

--
Ron

I wonder if having the extra raw data QFE monitor by the FO on approach was
worth the cost of retrofitting the airplanes? I understand in the end they
crap canned the idea anyway.
Dudley
"Ron Parsons" wrote in message
...
In article et,
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

Hey, you mountain types out there :-) I'm doing some research on a safety
issue and need your help . I need a post from someone flying out of
Colorado
somewhere, preferably Telluride or a field very close to Telluride. I
need
as close to the highest elevation in the U.S. as I can get.
I'm not dealing with this issue in the context of right or wrong as it
pertains to mountain flying. I need to know if the Kollsman window in
your
altimeters has a wide enough range to allow you, IF YOU DESIRED TO DO SO,
to
set your altimeters to 0 elevation on a consistent basis before take off
at
your field instead of a MSL setting. Again, I'm only interested in the
possibility, not the right and wrongs involved with doing this.
Thanks,
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt



I think AAL was the last major to set QFE for takeoff and landings. They
special ordered altimeters that would handle Mexico City.

--
Ron

In article k.net,
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

I wonder if having the extra raw data QFE monitor by the FO on approach was
worth the cost of retrofitting the airplanes? I understand in the end they
crap canned the idea anyway.

The bean counters wouldn't come up with the money to modify the 777 plus
there were some South American airports that were too high. Both the
Capt and the F/O were on QFE for take off and landing. The change over
was at about 6000 AFL. There was a 3rd altimeter in the middle of the
panel which remained on QNH. All three went to QNE above the Transition
Altitude.

Technically, you are correct that they changed "in the end", but that
was after 75 yrs in which the 3 altimeter system kept aluminum and dirt
separated quite nicely.

--
Ron

No, it wouldn't work. Note that 1" of pressure in the Kollsman window
changes the displayed altitude by 1000 feed.

So, at Leadville, Colorado (9927 MSL), effectively 10,000 feet,
you would need to move the Kollsman window from 30.00 to 20.00 inches.

Nope, it doesn't go that low.

Jer/ Eberhard, Colorado Mountain type.

Dudley Henriques wrote:
Hey, you mountain types out there :-) I'm doing some research on a safety
issue and need your help . I need a post from someone flying out of Colorado
somewhere, preferably Telluride or a field very close to Telluride. I need
as close to the highest elevation in the U.S. as I can get.
I'm not dealing with this issue in the context of right or wrong as it
pertains to mountain flying. I need to know if the Kollsman window in your
altimeters has a wide enough range to allow you, IF YOU DESIRED TO DO SO, to
set your altimeters to 0 elevation on a consistent basis before take off at
your field instead of a MSL setting. Again, I'm only interested in the
possibility, not the right and wrongs involved with doing this.
Thanks,
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt




Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 197 Young Eagles!

"Dudley Henriques" writes:

Hey, you mountain types out there :-) I'm doing some research on a safety
issue and need your help . I need a post from someone flying out of Colorado
somewhere, preferably Telluride or a field very close to Telluride. I need
as close to the highest elevation in the U.S. as I can get.

Talk to the chopper pilots. Here are the high 20 landing facilities
in the US.
1 CD37, EMPIRE, COLORADO, 12442
2 CD21, TARRYALL, COLORADO, 11294
3 CD38, FAIRPLAY, COLORADO, 11104
4 CD52, MOUNT PRINCETON, COLORADO, 10858
5 CD19, IDAHO SPRINGS, COLORADO, 10672
6 CD78, WOLF CREEK, COLORADO, 10634
7 CD41, GLENWOOD SPRINGS, COLORADO, 10603
8 CD70, STEAMBOAT SPRINGS, COLORADO, 10554
9 CO51, EMPIRE, COLORADO, 10400
10 CD25, BERTHOUD FALLS, COLORADO, 10340
11 01CO, LEADVILLE, COLORADO, 10175
12 CD74, VAIL, COLORADO, 10116
13 CD43, GRANITE, COLORADO, 10093
14 CO75, BRECKENRIDGE, COLORADO, 10085
15 CD44, HESPERUS, COLORADO, 10039
16 CD54, NORWOOD, COLORADO, 9943
17 1CO6, PALISADE, COLORADO, 9940
18 LXV, LEADVILLE, COLORADO, 9927
19 CD72, TRIMBLE, COLORADO, 9873
20 77CO, JEFFERSON, COLORADO, 9869

Way off topic...but perhaps amusing to those reading this thread.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/1752/3406421.html
A Red Cross supervisor said in 1993 that he didn't want to
fly anymore with an Aviation Charter pilot whom he said
ignored air traffic control advisories on how to avoid a
thunderstorm. The pilot, he said, took the plane up to
12,500 feet and told him it was a violation of Federal
Aviation Administration (FAA) rules to be in an
unpressurized cabin at that height. Whether the pilot was
violating FAA regulations is unclear.

--kyler

Dudley Henriques wrote:

I need to know if the Kollsman window in your
altimeters has a wide enough range to allow you, IF YOU DESIRED TO DO SO, to
set your altimeters to 0 elevation on a consistent basis before take off at
your field instead of a MSL setting.

This is not as close from Colorado as what you expected, but in France,
the highest airport elevation is well over 8000ft. You cannot set your
altimeter to 0 at such an altitude.
We have many airports like this here, where the runway is not flat but
on the contrary has a steep slope. You use it to land (up the slope) or
to take off (down the slope). To use such an airport, you must hold a
special "mountain" rating and must have learnt to land and take off on
such a special airfield. No go around there because the ground goes up
faster than your aircraft.
http://flyinfrance.free.fr/apt/isola.htm
and
http://flyinfrance.free.fr/apt/apt.htm
--
TThierry __|__
http://flyinfrance.free.fr \___(x)___/
! ! !