Switching to ground....

(there is no such thing as FAR's for pilots anymore).

Must be just for FAA, then. :-) "FAR" is splattered throughout even
the Regulatory section of the faa.gov web site.

Fred F.

David Rind wrote:

I'm wondering if anyone disagrees and thinks the right thing to
do was what I actually did -- stay with the Tower until I could
get permission to change to Ground.

That's what the AIM recommends. That's what I would've done.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

Flew into BED a few years ago, seems they have a problem remembering who
is where. I was on a short final after they forgot about me, 1/2 mile
out and they cleared the AC behind me to land before clearing me. My
thought is whether this is an FAA training sight. Yes they are busy but
not that busy they should not have Control of the situation. Later when
we left, I asked for a straight out, keep the nose down got the speed up
and got away from them as soon as possible.

Ron Gardner

David Rind wrote:

I landed at BED a couple of days ago, and as I was rolling out
the controllers switched, so I never got the usual instruction
to "turn off at Golf, ground .7". Since Golf was the first
taxiway to turn off on anyway, I made the turn off.

Tower was now so busy (common at BED) that I could not get a word
in on the frequency. With the controller switch, I had clearly
been forgotten -- the new controller told someone else to turn off
on Golf before noticing that I was there, not moving. After
probably 60-90 seconds the frequency was clear enough for me to
ask whether she wanted me over on Ground.

At the time, and in retrospect, I think my choice to stay on
Tower frequency was correct under the regs, but silly -- that
I should have just contacted Ground and told them I was switching
over since I was sure Tower really wanted me on Ground but had
forgotten me.

I'm wondering if anyone disagrees and thinks the right thing to
do was what I actually did -- stay with the Tower until I could
get permission to change to Ground.

--
David Rind

I have done the exit at Golf and switch thing several times (the last being
only a few days ago). Clearly, you need to get off the runway if there's
someone landing and the tower has forgotten about you. I might wait somewhat
longer at an unfamiliar airport before switching (or use COM2, like other
people have said), but we all know the drill at BED, I don't see it as a
safety issue at all, and have never had a controller bat an eyelash.

Jeremy

"David Rind" wrote in message
...
I landed at BED a couple of days ago, and as I was rolling out
the controllers switched, so I never got the usual instruction
to "turn off at Golf, ground .7". Since Golf was the first
taxiway to turn off on anyway, I made the turn off.

Tower was now so busy (common at BED) that I could not get a word
in on the frequency. With the controller switch, I had clearly
been forgotten -- the new controller told someone else to turn off
on Golf before noticing that I was there, not moving. After
probably 60-90 seconds the frequency was clear enough for me to
ask whether she wanted me over on Ground.

At the time, and in retrospect, I think my choice to stay on
Tower frequency was correct under the regs, but silly -- that
I should have just contacted Ground and told them I was switching
over since I was sure Tower really wanted me on Ground but had
forgotten me.

I'm wondering if anyone disagrees and thinks the right thing to
do was what I actually did -- stay with the Tower until I could
get permission to change to Ground.

--
David Rind

Jeremy Lew wrote:
I have done the exit at Golf and switch thing several times (the last being
only a few days ago). Clearly, you need to get off the runway if there's
someone landing and the tower has forgotten about you. I might wait somewhat
longer at an unfamiliar airport before switching (or use COM2, like other
people have said), but we all know the drill at BED, I don't see it as a
safety issue at all, and have never had a controller bat an eyelash.

Jeremy

Jeremy --

The "get off the runawy" part is clear -- even without the tower
saying "turn left at Golf", you are supposed to turn off at the
first taxiway that is practical -- and I've often exited the
runway before they told me to. I've also had the experience
in the past where they had likely forgotten that they had
failed to switch me to ground, but usually the frequency
is clear and I can just tell the tower that I am on Golf
and want to taxi -- occasionally when I do this I get surprised
in that the tower really does want me to stay with them during
the taxi. What made this situation unusual was that they had
forgotten me and I couldn't get a word in....

David

--
David Rind

Right. My main point was (or was meant to be) that one you have exited of
your own volition and are stopped past the hold short line, I can't fathom
it being a safety issue whether you talk to tower or ground before moving
again. You may have been told to stay with tower for taxi before, but I'll
bet it wasn't during one of those periods when tower frequency is saturated.

Jeremy

"David Rind" wrote in message
...
Jeremy Lew wrote:
I have done the exit at Golf and switch thing several times (the last
being
only a few days ago). Clearly, you need to get off the runway if
there's
someone landing and the tower has forgotten about you. I might wait
somewhat
longer at an unfamiliar airport before switching (or use COM2, like
other
people have said), but we all know the drill at BED, I don't see it as a
safety issue at all, and have never had a controller bat an eyelash.

Jeremy

Jeremy --

The "get off the runawy" part is clear -- even without the tower
saying "turn left at Golf", you are supposed to turn off at the
first taxiway that is practical -- and I've often exited the
runway before they told me to. I've also had the experience
in the past where they had likely forgotten that they had
failed to switch me to ground, but usually the frequency
is clear and I can just tell the tower that I am on Golf
and want to taxi -- occasionally when I do this I get surprised
in that the tower really does want me to stay with them during
the taxi. What made this situation unusual was that they had
forgotten me and I couldn't get a word in....

David

--
David Rind

"David Rind" wrote in message
...
snip
At the time, and in retrospect, I think my choice to stay on
Tower frequency was correct under the regs, but silly -- that
I should have just contacted Ground and told them I was switching
over since I was sure Tower really wanted me on Ground but had
forgotten me.

I'm wondering if anyone disagrees and thinks the right thing to
do was what I actually did -- stay with the Tower until I could
get permission to change to Ground.

--
David Rind


Dave,
From all that I have been taught and been able to find in the AIM &
FARs,waiting was the correct move.

However...,if holding at the taxiway placed your aircraft in danger,it would
fall to......

Sec. 91.3

Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.

(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is
the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in
command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to
meet that emergency.
(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of
this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written
report of that deviation to the Administrator.



Sec. 91.123

Compliance with ATC clearances and instructions.

(a) When an ATC clearance has been obtained, no pilot in command may deviate
from that clearance unless an amended clearance is obtained, an emergency
exists, or the deviation is in response to a traffic alert and collision
avoidance system resolution advisory. However, except in Class A airspace, a
pilot may cancel an IFR flight plan if the operation is being conducted in
VFR weather conditions. When a pilot is uncertain of an ATC clearance, that
pilot shall immediately request clarification from ATC.
(b) Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an
ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised.
(c) Each pilot in command who, in an emergency, or in response to a traffic
alert and collision avoidance system resolution advisory, deviates from an
ATC clearance or instruction shall notify ATC of that deviation as soon as
possible.
(d) Each pilot in command who (though not deviating from a rule of this
subpart) is given priority by ATC in an emergency, shall submit a detailed
report of that emergency within 48 hours to the manager of that ATC
facility, if requested by ATC.
(e) Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person operating an aircraft may
operate that aircraft according to any clearance or instruction that has
been issued to the pilot of another aircraft for radar air traffic control
purposes.

Marty

"David Rind" wrote in message
...
I landed at BED a couple of days ago, and as I was rolling out
the controllers switched, so I never got the usual instruction
to "turn off at Golf, ground .7". Since Golf was the first
taxiway to turn off on anyway, I made the turn off.
snip
I'm wondering if anyone disagrees and thinks the right thing to
do was what I actually did -- stay with the Tower until I could
get permission to change to Ground.
snip
--

David, in your own post, you state that the tower DID tell you to contact
ground. In the first paragraph, "turn left at Golf, ground .7".. most towers
will shorten the statement as BED did, "most" ground controls are always
121.x.. so the ".7" is 121.7

BT

BTIZ wrote:
"David Rind" wrote in message
...

I landed at BED a couple of days ago, and as I was rolling out
the controllers switched, so I never got the usual instruction
to "turn off at Golf, ground .7". Since Golf was the first
taxiway to turn off on anyway, I made the turn off.

snip

I'm wondering if anyone disagrees and thinks the right thing to
do was what I actually did -- stay with the Tower until I could
get permission to change to Ground.

snip

--


David, in your own post, you state that the tower DID tell you to contact
ground. In the first paragraph, "turn left at Golf, ground .7".. most towers
will shorten the statement as BED did, "most" ground controls are always
121.x.. so the ".7" is 121.7

BT

Sorry to take up bandwith with this, but please look at that
first paragraph of mine you quoted. I said I "never got" such
an instruction. I'm well aware that had tower actually said
to me "ground, .7" I would have been all set. Unfortunately,
they did not do so. I operate out of BED, so I expect to hear
them say "turn left at Golf, ground .7" and they didn't in the
confusion of switching controllers in the tower.

--
David Rind

ahhhh...
BT

"David Rind" wrote in message
...
BTIZ wrote:
"David Rind" wrote in message
...

I landed at BED a couple of days ago, and as I was rolling out
the controllers switched, so I never got the usual instruction
to "turn off at Golf, ground .7". Since Golf was the first
taxiway to turn off on anyway, I made the turn off.

snip

I'm wondering if anyone disagrees and thinks the right thing to
do was what I actually did -- stay with the Tower until I could
get permission to change to Ground.

snip

--


David, in your own post, you state that the tower DID tell you to
contact
ground. In the first paragraph, "turn left at Golf, ground .7".. most
towers
will shorten the statement as BED did, "most" ground controls are always
121.x.. so the ".7" is 121.7

BT

Sorry to take up bandwith with this, but please look at that
first paragraph of mine you quoted. I said I "never got" such
an instruction. I'm well aware that had tower actually said
to me "ground, .7" I would have been all set. Unfortunately,
they did not do so. I operate out of BED, so I expect to hear
them say "turn left at Golf, ground .7" and they didn't in the
confusion of switching controllers in the tower.

--
David Rind