Switching to ground....

"Stefan" wrote in message
...

The point is that taxiways are managed by Ground but runways
by Tower.


That doesn't answer my question. If the taxiways are managed by Ground how
can there be a problem with an aircraft switching to Ground once he's on the
taxiway?



Ground doesn't know what happens on the runways, Tower
doesn't care what happens on taxiways. It goes even furter:
Often Ground controllers are employees of the airport, Tower
controllers are employees of ATC. Ground
"controllers" needn't even be controllers at all.


Then why did Tower give the Fokker taxi instructions to the apron?



Ground gives you instructions where to taxi and which taxiways ot use,
but this doesn't imply the right to enter a runway. If you must cross a
runway, you hold short of it, switch to Tower and ask for permission to
cross it. After crossing, you switch back to Ground.


But in this case it was Tower that gave the Fokker instructions to taxi to
the ramp, which apparently required him to cross a runway. So he crossed
the runway on an instruction from Tower, just, as you say, he is supposed
to. I assume the Airbus was departing on a takeoff clearance from the same
Tower that instructed the Fokker to taxi to the ramp. Do you really believe
Tower bears no responsibility for this?



Usually Ground will say something like "Taxi via x to holding point y,
hold short of runway z, contact Tower 123.45", but if they omit the
hold short part, this doesn't imply anything.


Well, if he's required to hold short of any runway between his present
position and the point he's been instructed to taxi to, it means he can't
comply with his taxi instruction. It also means there is a very serious
safety flaw in German procedures.



As I pointed out (before you ask: in my first three paragraphs), this
wasn't the case.


Well, if it isn't, it means an instruction to taxi to a specific point is
not an authorization to taxi to that point. That's not safe.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:07:00 +0200, Stefan
wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
I don't know how it is in the USA, but in this part of the world, a taxi
instruction does *not* imply the right to cross a runway.

I assume you are referring to Germany here as well. IMHO a taxi
clearance to a point beyond a runway implies a clearance to cross it.
If you have a reference for your theory, I'd be very interested in
that.

Often Ground controllers are
employees of the airport, Tower controllers are employees of ATC. Ground
"controllers" needn't even be controllers at all.

Sorry, but this is plainly wrong. At least in Germany "Ground"
controllers on the major airports are DFS-employees and "real"
controllers. You probably have "Apron"-controllers in mind, but they
don't do any movement control on taxiways, never mind taxiways which
have runway intersections.

Ground gives you instructions where to taxi and which taxiways ot use,
but this doesn't imply the right to enter a runway. If you must cross a
runway, you hold short of it, switch to Tower and ask for permission to
cross it. After crossing, you switch back to Ground.

Usually Ground will say something like "Taxi via x to holding point y,
hold short of runway z, contact Tower 123.45", but if they omit the hold
short part, this doesn't imply anything.

I've never heard a controller omit the "hold short" part, and for good
reason.

Regards
Tobias

"Stefan" wrote in message
...

I don't know how it is in the USA, but in this part of the world, a taxi
instruction does *not* imply the right to cross a runway.


In the USA,if given an instruction/clearance "taxi to ramp",it is clearance
through all intersections,runway and taxiway.
The PIC is also tasked with the responsibility of "see and avoid"at all
times,AKA "look both ways before crossing the street". You never know when
somebody is going to be in the wrong place,including yourself.

Marty