Possibly apocraphal story about Enola Gay display

wrote in message . ..


The history being taught in Japan, at least at the time these
gentlemen were learning it, kind of skipped over Japan's involvement
in how the war got started, but sure focused on how it ended. For
many Japanese, apparently, their understanding of WWII is that they
somehow got to fighting with the US, then we dropped two atomic bombs
on them. China isn't mentioned, Korea isn't mentioned and the fact
that they attacked Pearl Harbor isn't mentioned.

Amazing, if true, although it isn't the first time I've heard of the
Japanese style of blindered teaching of this period of their history.

Corky Scott

All of us do that, to some degree, but perhaps not quite that
blatantly. A nation wants to forget its mistakes, so we downplay them
in the history texts, or take them out altogether. Conversely, we
emphasize our successes, sometimes taking credit not rightfully ours.
It's not fair to our kids, and they won't learn from their ancestor's
mistakes. Here in Canada there's often debate about what belongs in a
text (or a documentary) and what should be left out.

Dan

Dan

He told me that the director, an ex general, was squiring a group of
Japanese journalists around the center (date of this incident not
mentioned). When they passed the Enola Gay, some of the journalists
spoke up and said that they were offended by the display, saying that
the bomber had dropped the atomic bomb on Japan.

The ex general asked them what they thought about Pearl Harbor. The
Japanese, all journalists, were bewildered. "What about Pearl
Harbor?" They asked.

It's just barely possible that something like this did happen. The
NASM director is actually an admiral. There were certainly a lot of
Japanese visiting Udvar-Hazy when I was there in January. They
clustered around the Ohta suicide flying bomb and other relicts of the
JAAF and JNAF, and of course on the walkway over Enola Gay. (You cna't
get to it on the ground level, and there's a barrier to discourage
folks from throwing things from the walkway.)

I'm sure however that every Japanese journalist knows about the Pearl
Harbor attack. If something like this conversation took place, it
almost certainly meant: "What has our conventional and justifiable
attack on a military target have to do with your incincerating one of
our larger cities?"

Anyhow, it's not just the Japanese. The sour joke about American high
schools is that the students learn two facts about World War Two in
the Pacific: 1) that the Americans dropped an atomic bomb on
Hiroshima, and 2) so the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

My visit to Udvar Hazy is posted at www.warbirdforum.com/udvarhaz.htm

(Enola Gay is visible just beneath the Super Cub


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
I'm sure however that every Japanese journalist knows about the Pearl
Harbor attack.

You'd be amazed at how naive Japanese are about history prior to 1945.
Actually, naive is probably the wrong word -- "distorted" is probably more
appropriate.

Another point that someone left out was not only the Rape of China, but
ofthe Phillipines as well.

If something like this conversation took place, it
almost certainly meant: "What has our conventional and justifiable
attack on a military target have to do with your incincerating one of
our larger cities?"

Quite...ten years ago, at least, their teaching of their history was not
only short, but the same caliber of propaganda they got from the war
ministers in the 1930's and 40's.

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

I'm sure however that every Japanese journalist knows about the Pearl
Harbor attack.


What makes you so sure?



If something like this conversation took place, it
almost certainly meant: "What has our conventional and justifiable
attack on a military target have to do with your incincerating one of
our larger cities?"


A city which was a justifiable military target.

wrote:

Amazing, if true, although it isn't the first time I've heard of the
Japanese style of blindered teaching of this period of their history.

They have a Shinto shrine in Tokyo dedicated to the perpetrator of the rape of
Nanking. It's roughly the equivalent of having a cathedral in Berlin dedicated to the
memory of Himler.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

They have a Shinto shrine in Tokyo dedicated to the perpetrator of the rape of
Nanking.

I've never heard about this, and I've paid a lot of attention to
Nanjing and Japanese memory. Most likely you're thinking of Yasukuni
Jinja http://www.warbirdforum.com/yasukuni.htm which is neither in
Tokyo nor dedicated to the Nanjing perps.

If there's such a shrine as you describe, I'd appreciate a pointer to
it.

Yasukuni Jinja does indeed enshrine convicted war criminals from WWII.
This is the English translation of the intepretation available at the
shrine:

"Moreover, there were those who gave up their lives after the end of
the Great East Asian War, taking upon themselves the responsibility
for the war. There were also 1,068 "Martyrs of Showa" who were cruelly
and unjustly tried as war criminals by a sham-like tribunal of the
Allied forces (United States, England, the Netherlands, China and
others). These martyrs are also the Kami of Yasukuni Jinja."




all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver wrote:

If there's such a shrine as you describe, I'd appreciate a pointer to
it.

From the Introduction to _The Rape of Nanking_, by Iris Chang.

"What baffled and saddened me during the writing of this book was the persistent
Japanese refusal to come to terms with its own past. It is not just that Japan has
doled out less than 1 percent of the amount that Germany paid in war reparations to
its victims. It is not just that, unlike most Nazis, who, if not incarcerated for
their crimes were at least forced from public life, many Japanese war criminals
continue to occupy powerful positions in industry and government after the war. And
it is not just the fact that while Germans have made repeated apologies to their
Holocaust victims, the Japanese have enshrined their war criminals in Tokyo - an act
that one American wartime victim of the Japanese has labeled politically equivalent
to 'erecting a cathedral for Hitler in the middle of Berlin.'"

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

the Japanese have enshrined their war criminals in Tokyo -

Not quite the same thing as a shrine to Nanjing. Nor is Yasukuni in
Tokyo.

Nor in fact is Yasukuni a shrine to war criminals. As posted, those
who were tried as war criminals are included among the war dead and
those who committed suicide afterward. (I don't think it's in Tokyo,
either, though my browser is down this morning.)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver wrote:

the Japanese have enshrined their war criminals in Tokyo -

Not quite the same thing as a shrine to Nanjing. Nor is Yasukuni in
Tokyo.

Nor in fact is Yasukuni a shrine to war criminals. As posted, those
who were tried as war criminals are included among the war dead and
those who committed suicide afterward. (I don't think it's in Tokyo,
either, though my browser is down this morning.)

First, I never said it was a shrine to Nanking, I said it was a shrine to the
*perpetrator* of the rape of Nanking. That's a war criminal. As to the rest, if
Yasukuni is not in Tokyo nor a shrine to war criminals, I would assume that Ms Chang
was not referring to Yasukuni.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

On Sat, 29 May 2004 05:50:17 -0400, Cub Driver
wrote:


They have a Shinto shrine in Tokyo dedicated to the perpetrator of the rape of
Nanking.

I've never heard about this, and I've paid a lot of attention to
Nanjing and Japanese memory. Most likely you're thinking of Yasukuni
Jinja http://www.warbirdforum.com/yasukuni.htm which is neither in
Tokyo nor dedicated to the Nanjing perps.

If there's such a shrine as you describe, I'd appreciate a pointer to
it.

Yasukuni Jinja does indeed enshrine convicted war criminals from WWII.
This is the English translation of the intepretation available at the
shrine:

"Moreover, there were those who gave up their lives after the end of
the Great East Asian War, taking upon themselves the responsibility
for the war. There were also 1,068 "Martyrs of Showa" who were cruelly
and unjustly tried as war criminals by a sham-like tribunal of the
Allied forces (United States, England, the Netherlands, China and
others). These martyrs are also the Kami of Yasukuni Jinja."

Is this the place where Tojo's ashes were interred?