Delta Pilots End Era of Luxurious Pay

I think your wrong a good CEO is the company and there are few talented
enough to do the job.
"Earl Grieda" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
"Peter MacPherson" wrote in message
news:464ld.24424$V41.22997@attbi_s52...
Did Delta also end an era of luxurious "management pay" by 32.5
percent?
I tend to think not.....
..snip

Executives have high saleries because they do a job few can do. Not
many people on this planet can be good CEOs. CEOs are highly paid for
the same reason NBA Basketball stars are, not many people can do those
jobs.

Baloney. This is just CEO propanganda. Easily, 50% or more, of middle
managers could do the CEO job. There is nothing difficult or special
about
it. Simply because management is a pyramid with one job at the top does
not
mean that the top job is so special that only a few are capable of doing
it.
In the computer industry most engineers could be adequate CEOs, but few
CEOs
can be even mediocre engineers.

Earl G

Baloney. This is just CEO propanganda. Easily, 50% or more, of middle
managers could do the CEO job. There is nothing difficult or special about
it. Simply because management is a pyramid with one job at the top does not
mean that the top job is so special that only a few are capable of doing it.
In the computer industry most engineers could be adequate CEOs, but few CEOs
can be even mediocre engineers.

Then we should see saleries drop pretty fast. It sounds like you feel
you are qualified to do the job. Let the board of directors know that
you are willing to work for a fraction of what the current CEO is
working for. If you are as qualfied as you think you are you should
have no problem getting the job.

-Robert

In article ,
(Robert M. Gary) wrote:

Executives have high saleries because they do a job few can do. Not
many people on this planet can be good CEOs.

not many of the CEOs are actually good CEOs.

--
Bob Noel

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
"Peter MacPherson" wrote in message
news:464ld.24424$V41.22997@attbi_s52...
Did Delta also end an era of luxurious "management pay" by 32.5
percent?
I tend to think not.....

Executives have high saleries because they do a job few can do. Not
many people on this planet can be good CEOs. CEOs are highly paid for
the same reason NBA Basketball stars are, not many people can do those
jobs.

********. Over 15 years I watched a succession of increasingly inept
yet ever-higher-paid CEOs run the Fortune 100 company I worked for into
the ground, taking a lot of my 401K with it. My experience is by no
means unusual, either.

There is something badly wrong with corporate America. The companies
are managed for quarterly results and any chicanery to make the short
term bottom line look good is winked at by boards of directors and
federal regulators. The number one requirement for CEO candidates is a
good line of bs, not exceptional management talent.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

CEOs can be let go if the board thinks their saleries are too
high, pilots cannot.

What about being let go for incompetence? You don't see this
happen very often, though you should. How many companies
are run into the ground by incompetent CEO's who then walk
away at the end with a boat load of cash.

If another CEO offers to work for Delta for less,
the board can fire the current CEO and hire the less expensive guy at
any time.

Huh? So these CEO's are just working paycheck to paycheck? ; )
I think I remember something about a contract.



"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
"Peter MacPherson" wrote in message
news:464ld.24424$V41.22997@attbi_s52...
Did Delta also end an era of luxurious "management pay" by 32.5 percent?
I tend to think not.....

Perhaps I'm too conservative but I'll never understand that line of
thinking. Pilot's saleries are dictated by unions. There are 100
pilots wanting to work for every airline pilot employeed. Saleries
would normally be quite low with so many wanting those jobs, but the
union makes them high.
Executives have high saleries because they do a job few can do. Not
many people on this planet can be good CEOs. CEOs are highly paid for
the same reason NBA Basketball stars are, not many people can do those
jobs. CEOs can be let go if the board thinks their saleries are too
high, pilots cannot. If another CEO offers to work for Delta for less,
the board can fire the current CEO and hire the less expensive guy at
any time. The board cannot just hire their friends because they can
get fired. The institutional investors and fund managers make their
money 100% on the company's bottom line. They will not stand for
spending their money on a CEO being paid more than he's worth on the
market. The board are elected by these fund managers and institutional
invesytors. If the company spends more money than they need to, the
stock will do less well, the fund managers will lower their efficiency
rating, and investors (mostly retirement accounts) will choose other
funds to invest in. Everyone has someone to answer to. A good CEO can
make or break a company, its worth paying full market rate for a good
CEO.
Free market economics works amazingly well if we just let it be free.

-Robert, FAA Certified Flight Instructor, Commercial Pilot and MBA

(Robert M. Gary) writes:

Executives have high saleries because they do a job few can do.

I could not agree less with this.

Just like in many job categories--including airline pilots, pro
atheletes, and pop singers--there are many people who could do the job
at the same or very nearly the same skill level. It's very obvious to
anyone who reads the business, sports, or social sections of the
newspapers that numbers of very highly paid but incompetent and
dishonest people are employed in all those jobs, and many others.

I'm an engineer for the state. I see bozos here but I also see
hardworking and highly skilled people who are grossly underpaid. I
have a guy with 4 degrees from UC Berkeley and MIT working for me now.
He could get 50% more working for other govt. agencies and maybe even
more working for private. But he likes what he's doing and so
tolerates the crap pay. This is true for many of the elite jobs, so I
simply don't believe that business, sports, or the pop music biz would
fail without multi-million dollar salaries.

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...
(Robert M. Gary) writes:

Executives have high saleries because they do a job few can do.

I could not agree less with this.

Just like in many job categories--including airline pilots, pro
atheletes, and pop singers--there are many people who could do the job
at the same or very nearly the same skill level. It's very obvious to
anyone who reads the business, sports, or social sections of the
newspapers that numbers of very highly paid but incompetent and
dishonest people are employed in all those jobs, and many others.

I'm an engineer for the state. I see bozos here but I also see
hardworking and highly skilled people who are grossly underpaid. I
have a guy with 4 degrees from UC Berkeley and MIT working for me now.
He could get 50% more working for other govt. agencies and maybe even
more working for private.
Degree's dont meen anthing on what somebodys worth. If he cant get twice the
pay he is stubid for not doing it. I believe he is afraid to leave. He lacks
confidence in himself, that or he likes the his cushy govermnet job.
But he likes what he's doing and so
tolerates the crap pay. This is true for many of the elite jobs, so I
simply don't believe that business, sports, or the pop music biz would
fail without multi-million dollar salaries.

"aluckyguess" writes:

I'm an engineer for the state. I see bozos here but I also see
hardworking and highly skilled people who are grossly underpaid. I
have a guy with 4 degrees from UC Berkeley and MIT working for me now.
He could get 50% more working for other govt. agencies and maybe even
more working for private.

Degree's dont meen anthing on what somebodys worth. If he cant get twice the
pay he is stubid for not doing it. I believe he is afraid to leave. He lacks
confidence in himself, that or he likes the his cushy govermnet job.

You are right that degrees are not a good indication of somebody's
worth, especially degrees from 2nd-tier universities, which tend to
hand them out liberally. It would be cruel of me to also say that I
hope spelling and grammar aren't indicators either, so I won't. But
you are very wrong about this individual. He is the most talented
person I've ever hired, very productive, and very confident. He stays
on because no other place will provide the opportunity to do what he
wants (develop an advanced numerical model).

The point is that pay is only one factor of several that make a job
desirable. In the case of CEOs or other highly paid jobs
(e.g. sports), I think beyond a certain point the money offered is not
wanted for what it can buy, but simply as an indicator of what the
boss thinks of you compared to others.

Very well said. I hate to say it put if you can replace the pilots with
pilots of the same skill for less the company should be able to do it.
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
"Peter MacPherson" wrote in message
news:464ld.24424$V41.22997@attbi_s52...
Did Delta also end an era of luxurious "management pay" by 32.5 percent?
I tend to think not.....

Perhaps I'm too conservative but I'll never understand that line of
thinking. Pilot's saleries are dictated by unions. There are 100
pilots wanting to work for every airline pilot employeed. Saleries
would normally be quite low with so many wanting those jobs, but the
union makes them high.
Executives have high saleries because they do a job few can do. Not
many people on this planet can be good CEOs. CEOs are highly paid for
the same reason NBA Basketball stars are, not many people can do those
jobs. CEOs can be let go if the board thinks their saleries are too
high, pilots cannot. If another CEO offers to work for Delta for less,
the board can fire the current CEO and hire the less expensive guy at
any time. The board cannot just hire their friends because they can
get fired. The institutional investors and fund managers make their
money 100% on the company's bottom line. They will not stand for
spending their money on a CEO being paid more than he's worth on the
market. The board are elected by these fund managers and institutional
invesytors. If the company spends more money than they need to, the
stock will do less well, the fund managers will lower their efficiency
rating, and investors (mostly retirement accounts) will choose other
funds to invest in. Everyone has someone to answer to. A good CEO can
make or break a company, its worth paying full market rate for a good
CEO.
Free market economics works amazingly well if we just let it be free.

-Robert, FAA Certified Flight Instructor, Commercial Pilot and MBA

CEOs can be let go if the board thinks their saleries are too
high, pilots cannot.

What about being let go for incompetence? You don't see this
happen very often, though you should. How many companies
are run into the ground by incompetent CEO's who then walk
away at the end with a boat load of cash.

If another CEO offers to work for Delta for less,
the board can fire the current CEO and hire the less expensive guy at
any time.

Huh? So these CEO's are just working paycheck to paycheck? ; )
I think I remember something about a contract.



"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
"Peter MacPherson" wrote in message
news:464ld.24424$V41.22997@attbi_s52...
Did Delta also end an era of luxurious "management pay" by 32.5 percent?
I tend to think not.....

Perhaps I'm too conservative but I'll never understand that line of
thinking. Pilot's saleries are dictated by unions. There are 100
pilots wanting to work for every airline pilot employeed. Saleries
would normally be quite low with so many wanting those jobs, but the
union makes them high.
Executives have high saleries because they do a job few can do. Not
many people on this planet can be good CEOs. CEOs are highly paid for
the same reason NBA Basketball stars are, not many people can do those
jobs. CEOs can be let go if the board thinks their saleries are too
high, pilots cannot. If another CEO offers to work for Delta for less,
the board can fire the current CEO and hire the less expensive guy at
any time. The board cannot just hire their friends because they can
get fired. The institutional investors and fund managers make their
money 100% on the company's bottom line. They will not stand for
spending their money on a CEO being paid more than he's worth on the
market. The board are elected by these fund managers and institutional
invesytors. If the company spends more money than they need to, the
stock will do less well, the fund managers will lower their efficiency
rating, and investors (mostly retirement accounts) will choose other
funds to invest in. Everyone has someone to answer to. A good CEO can
make or break a company, its worth paying full market rate for a good
CEO.
Free market economics works amazingly well if we just let it be free.

-Robert, FAA Certified Flight Instructor, Commercial Pilot and MBA