Delta Pilots End Era of Luxurious Pay

devil wrote:

In other words, cheaper than the rates the market would loan them at, when
factoring in the risk. Which BTW is the normal practice.

No.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"John Mazor" wrote in message
...
[someone said]
It is amazing what folks can do with the rules once the feds lock them
in. We have a new ritzy exurb going in where they noticed a federal
program to encourage broadband in farm areas. They used the subsidy to
set up their cable system for their houses. Well, it used to be farm
land and the feds were sloppy.

Here the county is thinking of subsidizing an expansion of fiber cable,
including what would be service to $400k houses.

But in the DC area, $400K is low-cost housing or townhouses. They hardly
build anything below $600K within 25 miles of DC. They want $800K for new
cardboard-wall townhouses not too far from me.

Mark my words, the conversion of telephone service to fiber will
reduce the ultimate reliability of phone service. There is still "copper"
into the home, and the conversion from fiber to copper takes place in nearby
electronics powered from the electric utility. When the lights go out, the
phone fiber-to-copper electronics run on battery UNTIL THE BATTERY RUNS
DOWN, a matter of a couple of days. So your phone will fail during an
extended electrical outage. Neat. Many cell-phone sites do not have a
backup generator, so they too fail when their battery runs down.

"R J Carpenter" writes:

When the lights go out, the
phone fiber-to-copper electronics run on battery UNTIL THE BATTERY RUNS
DOWN, a matter of a couple of days. So your phone will fail during an
extended electrical outage.

Your conventional all-copper-wire-to-the-Central-Office phone will
fail exactly in the same way. What do you think powers them during an
"extended electrical outage"??

Bob Fry wrote:
Your conventional all-copper-wire-to-the-Central-Office phone will
fail exactly in the same way. What do you think powers them during an
"extended electrical outage"??

Your POTS phone doesn't need any power from your home. it is powered from the
phone company.

The central office has heavy duty battery backup and generators. And the
neighbourhood nodes have batteries and the telco then rotates portable
generators to recharge those batteries. problems occur when you have a truly
widespread outage where the telco doesn't have enough portable generators to
move around to recharge all neighbourhood nodes.

The solution is to use the telco's copper as a power source to power the fibre
link and one phone. This way you benefit from the telco's UPS systems and
don't need your own.

"R J Carpenter" writes:

When the lights go out, the
phone fiber-to-copper electronics run on battery UNTIL THE BATTERY RUNS
DOWN, a matter of a couple of days. So your phone will fail during an
extended electrical outage.

Unless you simply put a twisted copper pair in with the fiber cable used
in FTTH (which for practicality of installation and maintenance is
certainly going to be a small "cable" of some sort, not just a single
fiber).

Undersea fiber optic cables -- which are a different matter, of course,
but aren't physically that much bigger than the coaxial cables used for
cable TV -- carry DC electrical power at _4000 V_ all the way across
oceans.

"AES/newspost" wrote

Undersea fiber optic cables -- which are a different matter, of course,
but aren't physically that much bigger than the coaxial cables used for
cable TV -- carry DC electrical power at _4000 V_ all the way across
oceans.

Really? I had always thought that glass was a good insulator, not a
conductor.

Fiber optic strands carry light. Metal carries electricity. Put both in
one cable assembly, and you have a combination, or dual purpose cable., I
believe which is also called a hybrid cable.
--
Jim in NC


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Morgans wrote:
cable TV -- carry DC electrical power at _4000 V_ all the way across
oceans.

Really? I had always thought that glass was a good insulator, not a
conductor.

Fibre optic repeaters every 40 to 60km need electricity to regenerate/amplify
the light pulses.

The high voltage reduces current and hence loss of energy through resistance
over such long distances.

Morgans wrote:

Fiber optic strands carry light. Metal carries electricity.

True, but the long distance people are getting power to the repeaters over fiber
somehow. We in the local telecom business suspected that they were using light over
fiber to drive photocells, but apparently fiber is a conductor if the voltage is high
enough. Personally, I'm suspicous of this claim. DC current is very prone to voltage
drop over distance, and we're talking 1500 miles or more (half the Atlantic ocean).
Still, with 4,000 volts, there's room for quite a bit of drop. I'd love to see the
specs for this.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"R J Carpenter" wrote:
Mark my words, the conversion of telephone service to fiber will
reduce the ultimate reliability of phone service. There is still
"copper"
into the home, and the conversion from fiber to copper takes place in
nearby
electronics powered from the electric utility. When the lights go out,
the
phone fiber-to-copper electronics run on battery UNTIL THE BATTERY
RUNS
DOWN, a matter of a couple of days. So your phone will fail during an
extended electrical outage. Neat. Many cell-phone sites do not have
a
backup generator, so they too fail when their battery runs down.

Data point: Bellsouth voice/DSL trunks in my neighborhood have all been
converted to underground FO. Power was out here on the Eastern Shore
for 3-5 days after hurricane Ivan, but I never lost service.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Mike Rapoport" wrote

I agree that
the industry needs to shed capacity but it is hard to do.

Why don't they sell them to the Chinese? They ought to be needing more
capacity about now.

Cross posting deleted.
--
Jim in NC


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