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#181
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On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:46:01 -0500, Margy Natalie
wrote: Ok, I've been too busy to read the newsgroups but you guys are really nuts! No Child Left Behind does NOTHING to improve student achievement. The schools often have little to work with in the first place and I'm not talking $$. I teach in one of the best schools in one of the best systems in the country. My school has an upward of 98% pass rate on the science SOL (our standards test) but some of our kids aren't passing and no matter what I do they won't. Do you know if you have a borderline mentally retarded student taking science for learning disabled kids they need to pass the test? Well, if the retarded kids can pass, how good is the test? This sounds like a modernized version of "outcome based education" and most of us know how well that worked. Passing a kid who does not have the capability of doing the work is not doing them any favors. Passing a kid who won't do the work is not doing them any favors either. I feel sorry for the kids in situations that prevent them from doing their work, but again that is not the schools, or teachers fault and it is not doing the kind any favors by passing them. Lowering the qualifications for passing the tests does everyone a disservice. Let's face it, If you or I, or any adult doesn't have the capabilities to do a job we were hired to do, we are fired. If we don't do the work, regardless of our capabilities we still get fired. What happens to the kid who is passed through school without the ability to do the work, or who doesn't do the work? At best they can hope for menial labor and the odds are they won't do well there either. Life is harsh. If we don't have the education we can not compete. If we don't have the capability, we can't compete. There are many who just do not have the capability to do so and the system has to accommodate them, but it shouldn't drag the entire educational system down in the process. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#183
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Roger wrote: On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:46:01 -0500, Margy Natalie wrote: Ok, I've been too busy to read the newsgroups but you guys are really nuts! No Child Left Behind does NOTHING to improve student achievement. The schools often have little to work with in the first place and I'm not talking $$. I teach in one of the best schools in one of the best systems in the country. My school has an upward of 98% pass rate on the science SOL (our standards test) but some of our kids aren't passing and no matter what I do they won't. Do you know if you have a borderline mentally retarded student taking science for learning disabled kids they need to pass the test? Well, if the retarded kids can pass, how good is the test? This sounds like a modernized version of "outcome based education" and most of us know how well that worked. Passing a kid who does not have the capability of doing the work is not doing them any favors. Passing a kid who won't do the work is not doing them any favors either. Why do ALL students have to pass ALL tests? What's wrong with the kid that just doesn't make it in Algebra II doing something else. Who says EVERYONE must pass Algebra II to be ok? (I know the answer here, the State of Virginia says you must pass Algebra II). I agree that MOST students should be able to pass MOST tests, but NCLB demands high stakes testing of all students. I agree that standards can be applied. NY used to have general diplomas and Regents diplomas. The Regents diploma meant the student had passed a series of exams. Now states are required to have exams for all diploma, so a struggling student who may be very qualified for a number of professions can't manage to pass the tests and can't find employment due to no high school diploma. This is good? I feel sorry for the kids in situations that prevent them from doing their work, but again that is not the schools, or teachers fault and it is not doing the kind any favors by passing them. Lowering the qualifications for passing the tests does everyone a disservice. Let's face it, If you or I, or any adult doesn't have the capabilities to do a job we were hired to do, we are fired. If we don't do the work, regardless of our capabilities we still get fired. What happens to the kid who is passed through school without the ability to do the work, or who doesn't do the work? At best they can hope for menial labor and the odds are they won't do well there either. Life is harsh. If we don't have the education we can not compete. If we don't have the capability, we can't compete. There are many who just do not have the capability to do so and the system has to accommodate them, but it shouldn't drag the entire educational system down in the process. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#184
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On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 11:01:54 -0500, Margy Natalie
wrote: snip Why do ALL students have to pass ALL tests? What's wrong with the kid that just doesn't make it in Algebra II doing something else. Who says EVERYONE must pass Algebra II to be ok? People who don't realize that most of the population will never use Algebra? (I know the answer here, the State of Virginia says you must pass Algebra II). I was right:-)) I agree that MOST students should be able to pass MOST tests, but NCLB demands high stakes testing of all students. I agree that standards can be applied. NY used to have general diplomas and Regents diplomas. The Regents diploma meant the student had passed a series of exams. Now states are required to have exams for all diploma, so a struggling student who may be very qualified for a number of professions can't manage to pass the tests and can't find employment due to no high school diploma. This is good? Nope and I see nothing wrong with the two, or even the three tiered system. Why make the kids seeking a technical education do the same work of those going into college and science? By the same token, why make those who are unable to pass those same tests if all they are ever going to be qualified to do is unskilled labor. It may be an over simplification, but to me these are entirely different tracks. Of course some one is going to say that is class discrimination, but we do not live in a classless society. Given the opportunity we each reach our own level. Some times it takes a bit of prodding though. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#185
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"Roger" wrote in message ... On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 11:01:54 -0500, Margy Natalie wrote: snip Why do ALL students have to pass ALL tests? What's wrong with the kid that just doesn't make it in Algebra II doing something else. Who says EVERYONE must pass Algebra II to be ok? People who don't realize that most of the population will never use Algebra? (I know the answer here, the State of Virginia says you must pass Algebra II). I was right:-)) I agree that MOST students should be able to pass MOST tests, but NCLB demands high stakes testing of all students. I agree that standards can be applied. NY used to have general diplomas and Regents diplomas. The Regents diploma meant the student had passed a series of exams. Now states are required to have exams for all diploma, so a struggling student who may be very qualified for a number of professions can't manage to pass the tests and can't find employment due to no high school diploma. This is good? Nope and I see nothing wrong with the two, or even the three tiered system. Why make the kids seeking a technical education do the same work of those going into college and science? By the same token, why make those who are unable to pass those same tests if all they are ever going to be qualified to do is unskilled labor. It may be an over simplification, but to me these are entirely different tracks. Of course some one is going to say that is class discrimination, but we do not live in a classless society. Given the opportunity we each reach our own level. Some times it takes a bit of prodding though. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com What really sucks is the kid that wants to go into a trade/technical job won't get much in the way of training from high school. Schools now days chop shop classes at the first opportunity. It's a shame as half the kids leave high school having spent 4 years that will do little if anything to ready them for the work place. Most can't even fill out an application. |
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