Give Me A GOOD Reason

"steve.t" wrote:

Assume 120KTAS and a Piper of some kind (4 or more seats).
Assume max time in air per leg of 3 hrs and 30 minutes to fuel, potty,
refile, & go.
Note time of departure from house and time of arrival at destination.
Departure from local a/p where you rent/tie down/hanger to Tampa FL
(also assuming you are 300 Miles from Tampa).
Assume you would have to fly out of ATL or connect via ATL.

Which way will get you to the Tampa area and to your hotel in the
shortest time w/o heartburn/migraine, etc.?

Well, for something I've really done, Delta will get me from Newark, NJ to
Knoxville, TN in 4 hours, 36 minutes. Rather than hassle with parking, I would
take a limo, which will show up at my house two hours before the flight. Total
time about 6.5 hours.

The run in my Maule will be approximately 6.5 hours with typical winds and one
30 minute fuel stop. The drive to the airport, preflight, etc. will take about
an hour, so we have a total of about 7.5 hours.

As far as cost goes, the loaded cost of flying my Maule will be higher than two
airline tickets. The fuel cost alone is about 60% of the cost of one coach
ticket.

As far as "heartburn" is concerned, dealing with the airlines is a pain, but
worrying about the weather for that run is worse.

For a run to Tampa, Delta takes 4 hours, 40 minutes through ATL and the Maule
takes 8.5 hours (*not* counting wind) with two fuel stops.

George Patterson
He who marries for money earns every penny of it.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
...
Which way will get you to the Tampa area and to your hotel in the
shortest time w/o heartburn/migraine, etc.?

Well, for something I've really done, Delta will get me from Newark, NJ to
Knoxville, TN in 4 hours, 36 minutes. Rather than hassle with parking, I
would
take a limo, which will show up at my house two hours before the flight.
Total
time about 6.5 hours.

Try it from somewhere away from a city the major airlines serve.

Montrose to San Diego - Montgomery Field (in-laws...okay, maybe not the best
example but go with me on this).

15 minutes to airport and park car in hanger
3hrs. 30 min flying time, taxi/run-up.
30 minutes to shutdown, get rental car
Drive 12 miles to in-laws house from outskirts of city: 20 minutes.
** Bonanza - Door-to-door: 4hrs 15 minutes. Cost: +/- $690 (total cost
@$160/hr)

Airline way:

Drive to airport and park (easy to do here): 30 minutes
Arrival ahead of departure : one hour
Commuter flight to Denver or Salt Lake: 40 minutes
Turn around to major airline: one hour.
DEN or SLC to SAN: 1.5 hours
Putz around San Diego airport waiting for luggage... one hour.
Drive 31 miles to in-laws through the heart of the city: one hour.
**Airline - Door-to-door: 7.0 hours. Cost of four tickets: $502 apiece =
$2008.

'Nuff said?


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Matt Barrow wrote:

Putz around San Diego airport waiting for luggage... one hour.
Drive 31 miles to in-laws through the heart of the city: one hour.
**Airline - Door-to-door: 7.0 hours. Cost of four tickets: $502
apiece = $2008.

'Nuff said?

Yes I think the main reasons the numbers work for you are 1) you're
filling your airplane with people; 2) $502 ticket price seems excessive
for Montrose-San Diego; and 3) connecting through a hub city wastes
alot of time. But an *hour* waiting for luggage in San Diego??? I don't
have much good to say about Denver's airport, but on United quite often
the luggage arrives at the carousel before I do.

Jim Rosinski

"jim rosinski" wrote in message
oups.com...
Matt Barrow wrote:

Putz around San Diego airport waiting for luggage... one hour.
Drive 31 miles to in-laws through the heart of the city: one hour.
**Airline - Door-to-door: 7.0 hours. Cost of four tickets: $502
apiece = $2008.

'Nuff said?

Yes I think the main reasons the numbers work for you are 1) you're
filling your airplane with people;

Four of six seats.

I should add that the $502 is round trip, vs $1380 for a round trip by my
airplane. Yet just taking three of us beats the airline price, not to
mention the three hours time difference.

Even just three of us beats the airline price.

As I said, Montrose is not a major hub and that's where the time AND dollar
differences come into play.

2) $502 ticket price seems excessive
for Montrose-San Diego;

Best price I could get on Orbitz.com (UE - UAL) with a 10 day advance
purchase.

and 3) connecting through a hub city wastes
alot of time. But an *hour* waiting for luggage in San Diego??? I don't
have much good to say about Denver's airport, but on United quite often
the luggage arrives at the carousel before I do.

In July my daughter and wife waited 55 minutes for luggage in San Diego.
That might be a bit much, but not very much.


Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

George Patterson wrote:

As far as cost goes, the loaded cost of flying my Maule will be
higher than two airline tickets. The fuel cost alone is about 60%
of the cost of one coach ticket.

This appears to violate the "3X" general rule of thumb that the total
cost of aircraft ownership is roughly three times the cost of the fuel
you put into it. If the 3X rule applied in your scenario, your
ownership cost would be only 180% of the cost of one coach ticket,
which is cheaper than the 200% cost of two coach tickets. No doubt it
depends greatly on hangar and maintenance costs, but I find the 3X rule
applies well to ownership costs of my Skyhawk. But I conveniently
exclude engine reserve and the opportunity cost of the initial purchase
price in that calculation.

As far as "heartburn" is concerned, dealing with the airlines is a
pain, but worrying about the weather for that run is worse.

Agreed. For-real utilization of decades-old spam cans for purposes
where you must be at a specific place at a specific time seems
problematic at best. Maybe some folks can make it work, but I've never
done it.

Jim Rosinski

jim rosinski wrote:

This appears to violate the "3X" general rule of thumb that the total
cost of aircraft ownership is roughly three times the cost of the fuel
you put into it.

Yes. Actual ownership costs will nearly always "violate" this rule. That rule
might apply if you put something in excess of 200 hours a year on the plane. It
will not if you fly less.

Consider another "rule"; that the break-even point between renting and owning is
about 100-200 hours (depending on who you ask). Well, rental on an older 172 in
this area is about $80/hr. It will burn about $21/hr in fuel. Applying the first
rule-of-thumb, the ownership costs for that plane are about $63/hr. Applying the
break-even point rule, however, tells you that your ownership costs are likely
to be much higher.

Mine certainly are.

George Patterson
He who marries for money earns every penny of it.

Having flown the route from Michigan to our place in Florida multiple
times using both commercial jet, and my moth eaten, battered, refugee
from a junk yard airplane, I have actual comparison numbers...
Flying the commercial jets we have landed at both Tampa, and Fort
Myers, with the cottage being 90 miles from Tampa and 50 miles from Ft.
Myers.... Of course, I have to rent a car both to get to the cottage,
and to have transportation while there(~$120.00)...
The average time for either landing point: 8.5 hours portal to
portal...
Tickets ~$600.00 to $700.00 round trip (two people more or less
comfortably)

Flying ourselves, I land at Venice and rent a car... It is 16 miles to
the cottage...
The average time: 8.5 hours portal to portal...
Fuel cost ~$870.00, round trip (5 seats comfortably)

Obviously, if we are going to Florida for a long weekend, or we are on
a business trip with appointments in certain cities at a certain time,
the airlines have the distinct edge on dealing with inclement weather
and meeting schedules, and that is the method we usually choose under
those circumstances... If we have more days and a flexible schedule,
we fly ourselves...

For comparison Mapquest shows that if we drive it is 1350 miles and 22
driving hours... Fuel cost ~$180.00 round trip (4 seats comfortably if
a bit numb in the butt) and I don't have a ~$120 car rental bill -
clearly the cost effective method... Still, I haven't driven the trip
since the 1960's and don't intend to...


Denny

On 27 Jan 2005 05:19:15 -0800, "Denny" wrote in
om::


The average time for either landing point: 8.5 hours portal to
portal...
Tickets ~$600.00 to $700.00 round trip (two people more or less
comfortably)

Flying ourselves, [...]
The average time: 8.5 hours portal to portal...
Fuel cost ~$870.00, round trip (5 seats comfortably)

[...] or we are on
a business trip with appointments in certain cities at a certain time,
the airlines have the distinct edge on dealing with inclement weather
and meeting schedules, [...]

What of battling the congested automobile traffic to the airline hub
airport, absurdly intrusive security measures, waiting interminably
for the airliner to board, being packed in a sealed vessel with, and
re breathing the same air as, hundreds of strangers who may be
infected with various maladies? Airline travel is no longer
"glamorous"; it reduces passengers to the status of "a revenue
generating member of the herd," and subservient drones. Private
flying is a three dimensional adventure in freedom.

For comparison Mapquest shows that if we drive it is 1350 miles and 22
driving hours... [...] Still, I haven't driven the trip
since the 1960's and don't intend to...

I don't know how the situation is where you are, but within 100+ miles
of Los Angeles the freeway congestion is so bad (mostly due to
bumper-to-bumper commuters and road work), that it renders long
distance automobile traffic very unpleasant indeed.

In article .com,
wrote:

Can anyone give me a good logical reason to spend so much money to fly
airplanes or helicopters for private use? After more than 50 years I'll
be damned if I can come up with one. But I still do and probably will.
WHY?????
Ol S&B


Night flight, CAVU, full moon reflecting off the ocean.

QED

--
Bob Noel
looking for a sig the lawyers will like

In article .com,
wrote:

Can anyone give me a good logical reason to spend so much money to fly
airplanes or helicopters for private use? After more than 50 years I'll
be damned if I can come up with one. But I still do and probably will.
WHY?????
Ol S&B

In Alaska and much of Canada it's how you get around because there are
few roads. In the lower 48 it's the most spectacular way to get from
point A to point B there is.

Things that cause the brain excersize are good and flying causes a lot
of brain activity.

Flying is good for your health.

Corky Scott