FAA

"Paul Lynch" wrote
That cite works for a student pilot. A certificated airplane pilot getting
glider training is not a student pilot.

Correct, and precisely my point.

As another poster noted, a CFI gives authorizations and may limit them as he
or she sees fit. Operate outside that authorization and you violate Part 61
and possible Part 91.

Really? Exactly what part of Part 61 or 91 will you be violating if
you are not a student pilot? Chapter and verse please.

Michael

When an instructor endorses a logbook with a limitation and the student
violates that limitation then the specific section of Part 61 that the
endorsement contained is reg broken.

As for Part 91, that depends on what the pilot (student or transition) did.
91.3 addresses the PIC responsibilities (which a solo pilot, student or
transition, is by definition). 91.13 is for careless or reckless operation.
Once again, it depends on the circumstances and how much the feds want to
write up.

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"Paul Lynch" wrote
That cite works for a student pilot. A certificated airplane pilot
getting
glider training is not a student pilot.

Correct, and precisely my point.

As another poster noted, a CFI gives authorizations and may limit them
as he
or she sees fit. Operate outside that authorization and you violate
Part 61
and possible Part 91.

Really? Exactly what part of Part 61 or 91 will you be violating if
you are not a student pilot? Chapter and verse please.

Michael

This is one case where logic does apply to the regulations.
The CFI has given a limited authorization (NOT CERTIFICATE).
If the transiztion pilot operates outside the limits
of the authorization he/she has no authorization.
The CFI did not authorize that and is not accountable.

At 19:12 21 August 2003, Judy Ruprecht wrote:
At 23:42 20 August 2003, Michael wrote, quoting Paul
Lynch:

(without a CFI-imposed limitation over & above FAR
minimum requirements)... the transition pilot (could)
be flying on the CFIs certificate indefinitely.

I know what you mean, but I'm the only one who'll be
operating 'ON' my CFI certificate, thank you very much
- particularly when it's in my back pocket.

(to which 'Micael' responded) And on what basis is
the transition pilot required to comply with the limitation
on the solo endorsement?

Chapter and verse, please.

Opinion only, since I know of no FAR directly on point
here. Still...

... under 61.31(d)(2), such an endorsement can be construed
as the CFI defining the 'supervision' he or she will
provide. (No supervision, no solo privileges.)

... under 91.103, required preflight action, the PIC
is required to 'become familiar with all available
information concerning that flight.' Logically (and
legally, one hopes) written CFI-imposed limitations
regarding x-winds, practice area, x-c routes and/or
time limitations would be considered pertinent.

... (hang on - this is sort of an indirect proof) 61.195(d)(iii)
prohibits a CFI from endorsing a student pilot certificate
or logbook for solo flight unless the CFI has 'determined
that the student pilot is prepared to conduct the flight
safely under known circumstances, subject to any limitations
listed in the student's logbook that the instructor
considers necessary for the safety of the flight.'
Nothing in this section or elsewhere in the FARs prohibits
the CFI from applying the same professional standards
to a transition pilot who is not the holder of a student
pilot certificate.

Judy

The last, and stickyest part about a transitioning pilot
is the flight review requirement.

Does a pilot transitioning from gliders to power (or
vice versa) need a current flight review to fly solo in
the new category?

Kind of awkward to require a customer to go get a
flight review in a different cat and class (which he's rated)
before you can solo him. This doesn't make common sense,
but if you don't believe he's a student pilot
then he needs a flight review to fly solo/PIC, since
61.56(g) does not exempt him from the requirement.

But hmmm...I don't see any requirement that a pilot
fly in an aircraft in which rated in the Wings program
rules...
http://www.dayafss.jccbi.gov/ac61-91.htm
So perhaps one can do a flight review this way...

This one is interesting. I'd require him to get it
because he is a licensed pilot, and I'm not soloing
him as a student. I believe this to be more like a
checkout, whereas a BFR is much broader in scope.



At 22:54 21 August 2003, Mark James Boyd wrote:

The last, and stickyest part about a transitioning
pilot
is the flight review requirement.

Does a pilot transitioning from gliders to power (or
vice versa) need a current flight review to fly solo
in
the new category?

Kind of awkward to require a customer to go get a
flight review in a different cat and class (which he's
rated)
before you can solo him. This doesn't make common
sense,
but if you don't believe he's a student pilot
then he needs a flight review to fly solo/PIC, since
61.56(g) does not exempt him from the requirement.

But hmmm...I don't see any requirement that a pilot
fly in an aircraft in which rated in the Wings program
rules...
http://www.dayafss.jccbi.gov/ac61-91.htm
So perhaps one can do a flight review this way...

At 13:42 22 August 2003, Todd Pattist wrote in response
to
Mark James Boyd:

Does a pilot transitioning from gliders to power (or
vice versa) need a current flight review to fly solo
in
the new category?

I think he does. (Otherwise), he could always voluntarily
surrender his SEL under 61.27, obtain a student certificate
and be treated as a student.

This may be one way of dealing with 61.56(c), but here's
what FAA's Part 61 FAQ has to say on the topic:

QUESTION: The scenario is a rated pilot who is training
for a new rating and is flying as a solo “PIC” with
appropriate endorsements. In accordance with § 61.56(g),
would this rated pilot still be required a current
flight review, even to solo the glider while under
instruction?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.31(d)(3); No, the pilot would not
need to have a current Flight Review to solo as PIC
a glider while undergoing training for that rating
in a glider, provided that pilot has received the appropriate
training and has a current solo endorsement in a glider,
as per § 61.31(d)(3). § 61.31(d)(3) was specifically
written to address this situation.

The complete FAQ is available online at

http://www1.faa.gov/AVR/AFS/AFS800/DOCS/pt61FAQ.doc

Judy