Commercial - StrePla Competitive Upgrade

Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post I've done in the last day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise to slow down after this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed with the features of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou. Therefore I am now
offering a "competitive upgrade" option for SeeYou users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgrade for $294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and pocket*StrePla. The price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla and is less than the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter your SeeYou registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all the maps used in StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features that are great for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Paul,

having problems selling software, eh?

Speaking as a software ingeneer myself I think it's a pitty you have to
undertake such measures when selling a product to a small group of people
like glider pilots. Would you really like to see SeeYou guys strike back the
same way?

For my credit - I have evaluated both programs before purchase and have
chosen SeeYou over Strepla because I could find all of the features I needed
without using the manual.

Good luck...
John

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:huLqc.34513$6f5.3442400@attbi_s54...
Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post I've done in the last
day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise to slow down after this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed with the features
of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou. Therefore I am now
offering a "competitive upgrade" option for SeeYou users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgrade for
$294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and pocket*StrePla. The
price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla and is less than
the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter your SeeYou
registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all the maps used in StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features that are great for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

SeeYou users.

Forwarding your SeeYou key to a third party is not allowed according to the
license you have agreed upon when installing the SeeYou. A snip out of the
license agreement: "After you have received the registration key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it without permission of the
authors of this software."

What Paul is asking you to do is illegal from where SeeYou and Strepla
businesses come from.

It is also very questionable in terms of commercial ethics, but I hope we
don't have to go into that on a public newsgroup. Being an ever optimist, I
am sure we (the parties involved) can talk as adults even though we are
competitors on a free market. It's been that way so far.

Enjoy using the software you like best.
Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.SeeYou.ws/

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:huLqc.34513$6f5.3442400@attbi_s54...
Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post I've done in the last
day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise to slow down after this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed with the features
of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou. Therefore I am now
offering a "competitive upgrade" option for SeeYou users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgrade for
$294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and pocket*StrePla. The
price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla and is less than
the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter your SeeYou
registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all the maps used in StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features that are great for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Oh...

I gotta thank you for free advertizing of SeeYou on Strepla order pages

Andrej
--
glider pilots
http://www.SeeYou.ws/

"Andrej Kolar" wrote in message
...
SeeYou users.

Forwarding your SeeYou key to a third party is not allowed according to
the
license you have agreed upon when installing the SeeYou. A snip out of the
license agreement: "After you have received the registration key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it without permission of
the
authors of this software."

What Paul is asking you to do is illegal from where SeeYou and Strepla
businesses come from.

It is also very questionable in terms of commercial ethics, but I hope we
don't have to go into that on a public newsgroup. Being an ever optimist,
I
am sure we (the parties involved) can talk as adults even though we are
competitors on a free market. It's been that way so far.

Enjoy using the software you like best.
Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.SeeYou.ws/

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:huLqc.34513$6f5.3442400@attbi_s54...
Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post I've done in the last
day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise to slow down after
this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed with the features
of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou. Therefore I am now
offering a "competitive upgrade" option for SeeYou users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgrade for
$294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and pocket*StrePla. The
price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla and is less than
the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter your SeeYou
registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all the maps used in
StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features that are great
for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Hi Andrej and everyone,

Let me say for the record that SeeYou, like StrePla, is a great product and
the SeeYou team supports it very well. I am trying to do a very good job
selling and supporting StrePla. Like you, I want to have a friendly
relationship with you both in public and private. We have a lot in common.

However, I am very surprised by your response. I am being completely
sincere when I say that I don't see anything illegal or even questionable
about this marketing technique. My marketing approach in offering a
"Competitive Upgrade" is very common in the software industry. For example,
for years you could upgrade to the latest version of Microsoft Excel by
sending in the license key or box top from Lotus 123. The same was true
for upgrades to the latest version of Corel Draw from competitive products.

I'm not sure I follow you note below in regard to reselling or returning
without permission of the authors. I'm not going to use their SeeYou
license key or pass it on to anyone else. Therefore they are not reselling
or returning it. I am an ethical person that can be trusted. I just want
to verify that they are actually a SeeYou user and not simply saying they
are a SeeYou user.

I am frustrated by your statement that this marketing strategy is unethical.
I am an extremely ethical person with great integrity. I am just trying to
give customers a slightly less expensive way to get into a bundle of
pocket*StrePla and StrePla. The upgrade does not apply to upgrades to
StrePla only, just the bundle.

In regard to the "free marketing for SeeYou". I have always tried to show
customers all the options before they buy. That is clear in the hardware
and software comparisons on my web site. I often mention to customers that
there are 2 very good soaring flight planning and analysis programs
available - StrePla and SeeYou. I sell StrePla and I like it very much. I
imagine that some people will buy from me because they see something in
StrePla they like, or they feel I will offer good support.

I am sincerely very interested in feedback from others as to whether they
think my "Competitive Upgrade" marketing strategy is at all illegal or
unethical. If people think I'm doing something very wrong I will gladly
change my strategy so as to keep my reputation intact. But really don't
think I'm doing anything bad. Really.

Sincerely,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring Supplies
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"Andrej Kolar" wrote in message
...
SeeYou users.

Forwarding your SeeYou key to a third party is not allowed according to
the
license you have agreed upon when installing the SeeYou. A snip out of the
license agreement: "After you have received the registration key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it without permission of
the
authors of this software."

What Paul is asking you to do is illegal from where SeeYou and Strepla
businesses come from.

It is also very questionable in terms of commercial ethics, but I hope we
don't have to go into that on a public newsgroup. Being an ever optimist,
I
am sure we (the parties involved) can talk as adults even though we are
competitors on a free market. It's been that way so far.

Enjoy using the software you like best.
Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.SeeYou.ws/

"Paul Remde" wrote in message
news:huLqc.34513$6f5.3442400@attbi_s54...
Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post I've done in the last
day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise to slow down after
this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed with the features
of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou. Therefore I am now
offering a "competitive upgrade" option for SeeYou users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgrade for
$294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and pocket*StrePla. The
price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla and is less than
the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter your SeeYou
registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all the maps used in
StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features that are great
for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

I see nothing in this licensing statement that would
prevent what Paul is doing. The user isn't returning
or reselling the product only proving that he purchased
it.



At 12:36 20 May 2004, Paul Remde wrote:
Hi Andrej and everyone,

Let me say for the record that SeeYou, like StrePla,
is a great product and
the SeeYou team supports it very well. I am trying
to do a very good job
selling and supporting StrePla. Like you, I want to
have a friendly
relationship with you both in public and private.
We have a lot in common.

However, I am very surprised by your response. I am
being completely
sincere when I say that I don't see anything illegal
or even questionable
about this marketing technique. My marketing approach
in offering a
'Competitive Upgrade' is very common in the software
industry. For example,
for years you could upgrade to the latest version of
Microsoft Excel by
sending in the license key or box top from Lotus 123.
The same was true
for upgrades to the latest version of Corel Draw from
competitive products.

I'm not sure I follow you note below in regard to reselling
or returning
without permission of the authors. I'm not going to
use their SeeYou
license key or pass it on to anyone else. Therefore
they are not reselling
or returning it. I am an ethical person that can be
trusted. I just want
to verify that they are actually a SeeYou user and
not simply saying they
are a SeeYou user.

I am frustrated by your statement that this marketing
strategy is unethical.
I am an extremely ethical person with great integrity.
I am just trying to
give customers a slightly less expensive way to get
into a bundle of
pocket*StrePla and StrePla. The upgrade does not apply
to upgrades to
StrePla only, just the bundle.

In regard to the 'free marketing for SeeYou'. I have
always tried to show
customers all the options before they buy. That is
clear in the hardware
and software comparisons on my web site. I often mention
to customers that
there are 2 very good soaring flight planning and analysis
programs
available - StrePla and SeeYou. I sell StrePla and
I like it very much. I
imagine that some people will buy from me because they
see something in
StrePla they like, or they feel I will offer good support.

I am sincerely very interested in feedback from others
as to whether they
think my 'Competitive Upgrade' marketing strategy is
at all illegal or
unethical. If people think I'm doing something very
wrong I will gladly
change my strategy so as to keep my reputation intact.
But really don't
think I'm doing anything bad. Really.

Sincerely,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring Supplies
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


'Andrej Kolar' wrote in message
...
SeeYou users.

Forwarding your SeeYou key to a third party is not
allowed according to
the
license you have agreed upon when installing the SeeYou.
A snip out of the
license agreement: 'After you have received the registration
key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it
without permission of
the
authors of this software.'

What Paul is asking you to do is illegal from where
SeeYou and Strepla
businesses come from.

It is also very questionable in terms of commercial
ethics, but I hope we
don't have to go into that on a public newsgroup.
Being an ever optimist,
I
am sure we (the parties involved) can talk as adults
even though we are
competitors on a free market. It's been that way so
far.

Enjoy using the software you like best.
Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.SeeYou.ws/

'Paul Remde' wrote in message
news:huLqc.34513$6f5.3442400@attbi_s54...
Hi,

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post
I've done in the last
day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise
to slow down after
this
one.

Being a US dealer for StrePla and pocket*StrePla
and a member of Team
StrePla I have found that many customers are impressed
with the features
of
the products, but they are already using SeeYou.
Therefore I am now
offering a 'competitive upgrade' option for SeeYou
users.

If you are currently using SeeYou and you are interested
in using
pocket*StrePla and StrePla, you can buy the StrePla-Bundle-Upgra
de for
$294.
It includes the full version of both StrePla and
pocket*StrePla. The
price
is $74 less than buying both StrePla and pocket*StrePla
and is less than
the
price of WinPilot Pro. You will be asked to enter
your SeeYou
registration
key when you place the order.

StrePla offers some unique features like free US
Sectional Aeronautical
charts. pocket*StrePla offers full access to all
the maps used in
StrePla
and some very nice in-flight task optimization features
that are great
for
pilots doing OLC (Online Contest) flights or FAI
free distance flights.

Of course, you may download and try the software
before you buy it.

Thank you,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

Hi Todd,

I understand your position on this recurring theme. However, every time we
go through this friendly argument I receive many, many more supportive
comments than negative ones. My intension is to continue to send commercial
posts. I will try to keep them less often (on average) than 1 every week or
2. As has been my practice of late I will highlight the posts with the term
"Commercial" in the header so that people can ignore them if they choose.
They are easy to ignore if you choose.

My impression is that most people on this newsgroup like to learn about new
and updated products here.

I am not trying to get rich, but rather to support the soaring community.

Thank you,

Paul Remde

"Todd Pattist" wrote in message
...
"Paul Remde" wrote:

I'm sorry about this being the 3rd commercial post I've done in the last
day
or so. I tend to do them in spurts... I promise to slow down after this
one.

At the risk of being flamed again, the Charter of
rec.aviation.soaring does not allow *any* commercial
messages in this forum. You should be ashamed of yourself,
as you know the rules. Other soaring suppliers abide by
them. Put a link to your web site in your sig.

Googles Glossary:
http://www.google.com/googlegroups/glossary.html
netiquette [from "network etiquette"] n The conventions of
politeness recognized in discussion forums, such as
avoidance of cross-posting to inappropriate forums and
refraining from commercial pluggery outside the business
forums.


http://www.faqs.org/faqs/finding-groups/general/
2) Commercial Advertisements
The general rule of thumb is that you need to take the time
to learn where your advertisement is appropriate before you
post it. If you are not sure where your advertisement is
appropriate, don't post it. Another good rule of thumb is
that unless the group's charter or FAQ specifically mentions
that some limited types of advertising are welcome, you
should assume that no commercial postings are allowed.

You will be asked to enter your SeeYou registration
key when you place the order.

People really should not give these out. You should ask for
other proof (canceled check, etc.)

I don't mean to jump on you Paul, but this is not a
commercial forum and it's against the
Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

I see post from Wings & Wheels and a few from Knauff when a new book comes
out. We need the info.

I'd hate to drive you off the group, but I hope you'll think
before posting commercial messages.

Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

I'm not sure I follow you note below in regard to reselling or returning
without permission of the authors. I'm not going to use their SeeYou
license key or pass it on to anyone else. Therefore they are not reselling
or returning it. I am an ethical person that can be trusted. I just want
to verify that they are actually a SeeYou user and not simply saying they
are a SeeYou user.

Let me preface what I have to say by stating that for several years I
worked for Tim Mara at Wings and Wheels, and now do all the US Support
for LX Navigation and flyWithCE products. But, the following
statement clearly prohibits what you are doing.

"After you have received the registration key for the
software it is not possible to return or resell it without permission
of the
authors of this software."

Users sending you their code are clearly "returning" it. In addition,
they are "selling" it because you have given them a discount, which
amounts a monetary value. You are buying their code.

To be honest, when I first read your post, I thought it was a great
business strategy. I have no personal problems with what you are
doing. But the SeeYou EULA clearly states that this is not correct.

Also, I think that there are alot of people who don't care a message
on RAS everytime you add a new mount, cable, update your website, ect.
I know that Tim updates his website 3-4 times EVERYDAY, with new
products, want-ads, ect. We probably get 25-50 new products every
year, but we don't put a message on RAS for everyone. Latley, your
posts have increased to 2-3 per week, for every little thing that you
get. Clearly, the business you recieve from these posts justify the
negative feedback you recieve from some. But, at the same time,
Standard Oil got alot of business too, but that didn't make their
tactics right.

Kevin Christner

Thanks......and Honestly...... I try very hard and refrain from posting any
messages that might even be considered "commercial".....the last message I
can remember posting that was close was to announce the new HpH Sailplane
and offer links to the pages....I thought that would be newsworthy and
simply tried to point a link page where if there was interest, the readers
of RAS could go to find out more... I did get several responses but answered
these in private rather that trying to keep the business name on RAS. I
respect and try to honor the charter of RAS. I find RAS a great place to
ask and find answers to soaring questions, to post news, the good and the
bad for the readers interest and try to pass on answers to technical
questions where I can.....hopefully to the benefit to all users. I'll
continue to do this and hopefully will at times offer a helpful note. I
believe RAS is not the place for, and should not be used for self-promotion
or commercial business or it will lessen the value of sincere answers to the
level of late night infomercials and SPAM phone calls...I hope others who
are in the business of sailplanes and soaring supplies will also abide by
the rules of this charter.
Tim Mara
(you know where )



"Todd Pattist" wrote in message
...
e"f.blair" wrote:

I see post from Wings & Wheels and a few from Knauff when a new book
comes
out. We need the info.

Perhaps I've missed them, but all the posts from Tim (W&W)
that I've seen were responses to questions or other posts
initiated by someone here. They aren't commercial. Tom
(K&G) doesn't seem to post here much, but he provides a
newsletter that I subscribe to and get the "info we need"
about K&G that way. Paul and Tim have web sites we can
visit. IIRC, Tim puts that web site in his sig.

I probably wouldn't have commented if the original post
hadn't pointedly noted that it was the third commercial post
in a string. Where is the line drawn? The answer is really
simple - commercial posts aren't allowed here and normally
aren't allowed under the AUP provisions of most ISP's.


Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)