IFR in motorglider?

Interesting.

14 CFR 61-3(e) takes care of the pilot but the original question pertained
to motor gliders.

AC 21 17-2(a) states:
h. Section 91.205 of the FAR. Powered gliders are considered to be powered
aircraft for the
purpose of complying with § 91.205.

91.205, of course, specifies the requirements for flying IFR.

A distinction must be made between flying IFR and flying in clouds.

While I doubt any motor glider can meet the requirements for flying IFR (and
no unpowered glider can), flying in clouds in uncontrolled airspace seems to
be a simple matter of having an instrument rating and having no day VFR
restrictions in your glider handbook or operating restrictions.

In uncontrolled airspace, you can do just about anything you want, if
properly certificated. The problem is finding uncontrolled airspace.

Allan


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40e9c2ea$1@darkstar...
In the USA:

(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil
aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:

(3) For a glider, a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and an
airplane instrument rating; or


.......Snip.....

ADP wrote:
Interesting.

While I doubt any motor glider can meet the requirements for flying IFR (and
no unpowered glider can),


Goodness no. I believe unpowered gliders can and have
flown in controlled airspace, and under IFR, and quite recently and
legally in the USA. There was a recent high-altitude downwind dash
in wave over the Sierras by a savy, experienced ATP that did just
this, IIRC. Somebody who doesn't have to rush home
for dinner like I must can perhaps chime in here...


flying in clouds in uncontrolled airspace seems to
be a simple matter of having an instrument rating and having no day VFR
restrictions in your glider handbook or operating restrictions.


Goodness, yes. Carl Herold by secondhand info seems
to have 300 hrs + glider IMC this way. But again, I may
be deifying him rather than stating fact...best to
get his input directly I suspect...


Although a bit rare, none of this seems outside of the
realm of legality. Certainly very risky if one
chooses needle, ball, airspeed alone without
much recent experience this way, but
not illegal with certain caveats.

Personally I'd SURE want an AI too...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message news:40e9f92c$1@darkstar...
ADP wrote:
Interesting.

While I doubt any motor glider can meet the requirements for flying IFR (and
no unpowered glider can),


Goodness no. I believe unpowered gliders can and have
flown in controlled airspace, and under IFR, and quite recently and
legally in the USA. There was a recent high-altitude downwind dash
in wave over the Sierras by a savy, experienced ATP that did just
this, IIRC. Somebody who doesn't have to rush home
for dinner like I must can perhaps chime in here...


flying in clouds in uncontrolled airspace seems to
be a simple matter of having an instrument rating and having no day VFR
restrictions in your glider handbook or operating restrictions.


Goodness, yes. Carl Herold by secondhand info seems
to have 300 hrs + glider IMC this way. But again, I may
be deifying him rather than stating fact...best to
get his input directly I suspect...


Although a bit rare, none of this seems outside of the
realm of legality. Certainly very risky if one
chooses needle, ball, airspeed alone without
much recent experience this way, but
not illegal with certain caveats.

I will remind you that the original post was whether it was legal to
fly said glider WITHOUT A CURRENT MEDICAL! The answer to this question
must be an unequivocal NO!

Tom

Why must it be an unequivocal no?

Please site your sources.

Allan

"Tom Seim" wrote in message
om...
(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message
news:40e9f92c$1@darkstar...
ADP wrote:
I will remind you that the original post was whether it was legal to
fly said glider WITHOUT A CURRENT MEDICAL! The answer to this question
must be an unequivocal NO!

Tom

"ADP" wrote in message ...
Why must it be an unequivocal no?

Please site your sources.

61.23

Where in 61.23? In fact, it says precisely the opposite.

"Tom Seim" wrote in message
om...
"ADP" wrote in message
...
Why must it be an unequivocal no?

Please site your sources.

61.23

"ADP" wrote in message ...
Where in 61.23? In fact, it says precisely the opposite.

IFR flight requires an "Instrument-Airplane" rating. "Airplane"
requires a medical. There is no "Instrument-Glider" rating.

Tom

Tom Seim wrote:

I will remind you that the original post was whether it was legal to
fly said glider WITHOUT A CURRENT MEDICAL! The answer to this question
must be an unequivocal NO!

Aggghhh. This one comes down again to if one
thinks a motorglider is a powered aircraft.
This subject is too fuzzy for me to agree or
disagree. I'd tell you that
a) I have a medical so I don't personally care so much
b) if I didn't have a medical I might interpret
the rule to mean I can't fly in clouds with the engine on,
(but I can fly in them with it removed or stowed)
which is silly.
c) if I had a medical revoked or failed, I'd
likely not be safe to fly anything at all...

So really I guess the pilot wants to know if
he can fly a motorglider in the clouds with the motor
running with an expired medical but no
known adverse medical problems.

That's a good question for the FSDO. I dunno what they'd
say. Somebody ref'd an AC on this but the early posts in this
thread are no longer accessible. Ooops, I shoulda saved the
AC ref...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

AC 21 17-2(a) states:
h. Section 91.205 of the FAR. Powered gliders are considered to be powered
aircraft for the purpose of complying with § 91.205.

Allan


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40edcd7c$1@darkstar...


That's a good question for the FSDO. I dunno what they'd
say. Somebody ref'd an AC on this but the early posts in this
thread are no longer accessible. Ooops, I shoulda saved the
AC ref...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...e_Library%5Crg
AdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/EAE91A15C5E11823862569B600563FBF?OpenDocument

You gotta paste together the link, sorry ;(

In article ,
ADP wrote:
AC 21 17-2(a) states:
h. Section 91.205 of the FAR. Powered gliders are considered to be powered
aircraft for the purpose of complying with § 91.205.

Allan


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40edcd7c$1@darkstar...


That's a good question for the FSDO. I dunno what they'd
say. Somebody ref'd an AC on this but the early posts in this
thread are no longer accessible. Ooops, I shoulda saved the
AC ref...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA




--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA