Soaring and Critical Mass of Participation.

stephanevdv wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if soaring hasn't already reached a kind of critical
mass.

Apart from other competing interests and local availability factors,
the cost will always limit many people in their endeavours to become a
soaring pilot.

To get the costs down sufficiently to really interest a new kind of
public, you would have to multiply the number of sailplanes and pilots
so much, that our already cluttered airspace would be completely
saturated.

Surely you aren't talking about Australian airspace? Or USA airspace for
that matter. Europe maybe?


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

At 12:00 01 February 2005, Stephanevdv wrote:

Sometimes I wonder if soaring hasn't already reached
a kind of critical
mass.

Apart from other competing interests and local availability
factors,
the cost will always limit many people in their endeavours
to become a
soaring pilot.

To get the costs down sufficiently to really interest
a new kind of
public, you would have to multiply the number of sailplanes
and pilots
so much, that our already cluttered airspace would
be completely
saturated.


--
stephanevdv

Lots of truth in that statment; we can't expect the
numbers to quadruple.
------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au
]
- A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when,
why, or what they fly -

The numbers will continue to shrink in the current environment.

BUT, there is a way that soaring can move into the forefront. And, in this
way, the numbers of pilots could indeed quadruple. But the status quo itself
is the main impediment. There are too many entities that have a vested
interest in keeping things exactly the same...presiding over their own
eventual disappearance.

It is not that these entities know what they are doing. In fact, they are
just trying to survive in some cases and doing what they see are the best
methods for improving and expanding the sport. In any endeavor, the
establishment acts in this manner.

And, in any endeavor with a steady input of youth, the status quo is
eventually either replaced or swept aside. As one of many, many examples,
take snowboards. Skills derived from skateboarding went to the ski slopes
over the dead bodies of the skiers. Now, the growth is in shredding, not
skiing. It is not because the establishment of skiers decided to switch. It
is because the young wanted them out of the way and when they did not move,
they were ignored.

This analogy can be replaced with dozens more but how does it apply to
soaring and what I see as a dilemna in participation? I think a similar act
by ANY young pilots could revive the sport...or reverse it in certain ways.
First, they must ignore sailplane racing as it exists today. It is, in fact,
a baseball game being played with a corked bat.

First, a hundred grand for an airplane that you cannot fly but four months a
year is a luxury and one that youth cannot afford and most people cannot
justify. It is hard enough justifying an airplane that actually goes places.
Sailboats can sail year round even if they don't. There are cheaper
alternatives, though. The 13M ship is that alternatives. Still not cheap, it
costs less than many of the cars that kids drive today.

But how can a less capable aircraft compete against more capable ones? It
cannot. So screw them. Play your own game. Instead of competing in "vacation
eating", death-march-tasked boredom festivals in desolate back country, hold
sprint races wherever you can find lift.

A Sprint Race (invented by ME) involves a few aircraft starting in a
cylinder at the same time (yes, i know the Euros are doing something similar
now but I proposed it long before them), flying a short task (to quarter
mile AST turnpoints) designed to last no more than an hour and a half, and
finishing at a FINISH LINE in front of the gate/audience/crews. The time
limit is important for several reasons; not the least of which is the
boredom that exists back at the strip while you are out in your ship
scratching around in two knots. Fellows: She isn't coming back out to help
you ever again after you put her through that. But if she doesn't have to
commit the family vacation and the entire lifestyle, gets to visit with
other people who are excited about a race they are watching, then she just
might. And with 30:1 ships, you just might need a crew again.....

The ships and trailers will be painted in a variety of bright colors and
covered with vinyl advertisements not unlike the vehicles of the most
popular sport in America. If one wants to push it, then the production
methods proposed by me for a televised race bought by Fox to be shown ten
times could be employed. Lipstick cameras, camera ships, computer images
(held to a minimum) and all that stuff could be used to create a venue that
is watchable, exciting and inviting...especially when a young pilot crawls
out of the winning ship to stand on the podium to collect his/her check and
put his Red Bull cap on for the cameras to see.

It is a race that favors skill just like it does now. You have to find lift.
You have to have situation awareness. You have to practice. But you don't
need anyone to call a PST so you can stay in the lead over a week of racing.
The guy in front is in the lead. Got it? Like a RACE! Local eliminations
create a hierarchy that competes in the Nationals.

In two years, I could have the National Champion of Sprint Racing on the
front cover of Outside Magazine. That's when it would quadruple. Sky Racing.
Cloud Sprints. Skyluges. Not gliders. Crash helmets. Not silly old man's
doofus hats. Reflexes. Not reflection. And the cool thing is that there is
no reason that the same people cannot compete. It just favors gamblers a
little more than bookies like the current thing does.

No. It's not the kindly old gentleman's sport that is now dying of
constipation. But, on the other hand, it kicks ass. It is something that
someone (spelled A M E R I C A N) would want to do. We couldn't beat the
Euros at open wheel Formula One racing. So what did we do? We started drag
racing. Honestly, the idea of being alone way the hell out in nowhere while
all my friends are getting laid is not exactly what I have in mind for a fun
weekend. On the other hand, winners get laid. Right. Get laid.

Don't be so naive as to ask what the relevance of that phrase is to growth,
attraction of youth, attraction of sponsors and money, or survival of the
fittest sport. Winners get laid and they get rewarded and they get famous.
Think about all the dead guys you know in soaring while I think about all
the dead guys I know in aviation in general. The other guys were trying to
make money, win a prize, or do the impossible. In soaring, you can lose big
but you cannot ever win big.

Cost too much for what you get. Requires too much time for what you get.
Involves too risk for what you get. It is not all those things that everyone
says about money, time and risk. It is WHAT YOU GET that your fellow
Americans don't recognize as worth it. Ever notice how their eyes glaze over
when you try to tell them about the beauty of flying with an eagle? Now tell
them about passing someone in the final stretch of a race in your bright red
Sparrowhawk to finish just out of the money and see how they follow every
word. They are the market.

Duh.

So, we have the manufacturers of 13M gliders. They have to wait until the
infrastructure creates enough pilots before they start to sell gliders in
any numbers. And the infrastructure cannot do it. And the status quo will
just want to start yet another class thereby burying these less capable
machines. No. If they want to sell, they have to sell into their own sport
with their own marketing. And they need someone like me to do it. Otherwise,
they will be a minor footnote. They must separate now, in my not so humble
opinion.

Ahhh. That felt good.

Say, John,

Have you seen the latest gliders? $4,000 and they look real, real cool.
Well, at least the pilot and the FAA think it's a glider.
But don't tell anybody, ok, this will just be our little secret...shhhhh

http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~mjboyd/cfi/...lverGlider.jpg

Shhhhhh...

In article . net,
John Shelton wrote:
The numbers will continue to shrink in the current environment.

BUT, there is a way that soaring can move into the forefront. And, in this
way, the numbers of pilots could indeed quadruple. But the status quo itself
is the main impediment. There are too many entities that have a vested
interest in keeping things exactly the same...presiding over their own
eventual disappearance.

It is not that these entities know what they are doing. In fact, they are
just trying to survive in some cases and doing what they see are the best
methods for improving and expanding the sport. In any endeavor, the
establishment acts in this manner.

And, in any endeavor with a steady input of youth, the status quo is
eventually either replaced or swept aside. As one of many, many examples,
take snowboards. Skills derived from skateboarding went to the ski slopes
over the dead bodies of the skiers. Now, the growth is in shredding, not
skiing. It is not because the establishment of skiers decided to switch. It
is because the young wanted them out of the way and when they did not move,
they were ignored.

This analogy can be replaced with dozens more but how does it apply to
soaring and what I see as a dilemna in participation? I think a similar act
by ANY young pilots could revive the sport...or reverse it in certain ways.
First, they must ignore sailplane racing as it exists today. It is, in fact,
a baseball game being played with a corked bat.

First, a hundred grand for an airplane that you cannot fly but four months a
year is a luxury and one that youth cannot afford and most people cannot
justify. It is hard enough justifying an airplane that actually goes places.
Sailboats can sail year round even if they don't. There are cheaper
alternatives, though. The 13M ship is that alternatives. Still not cheap, it
costs less than many of the cars that kids drive today.

But how can a less capable aircraft compete against more capable ones? It
cannot. So screw them. Play your own game. Instead of competing in "vacation
eating", death-march-tasked boredom festivals in desolate back country, hold
sprint races wherever you can find lift.

A Sprint Race (invented by ME) involves a few aircraft starting in a
cylinder at the same time (yes, i know the Euros are doing something similar
now but I proposed it long before them), flying a short task (to quarter
mile AST turnpoints) designed to last no more than an hour and a half, and
finishing at a FINISH LINE in front of the gate/audience/crews. The time
limit is important for several reasons; not the least of which is the
boredom that exists back at the strip while you are out in your ship
scratching around in two knots. Fellows: She isn't coming back out to help
you ever again after you put her through that. But if she doesn't have to
commit the family vacation and the entire lifestyle, gets to visit with
other people who are excited about a race they are watching, then she just
might. And with 30:1 ships, you just might need a crew again.....

The ships and trailers will be painted in a variety of bright colors and
covered with vinyl advertisements not unlike the vehicles of the most
popular sport in America. If one wants to push it, then the production
methods proposed by me for a televised race bought by Fox to be shown ten
times could be employed. Lipstick cameras, camera ships, computer images
(held to a minimum) and all that stuff could be used to create a venue that
is watchable, exciting and inviting...especially when a young pilot crawls
out of the winning ship to stand on the podium to collect his/her check and
put his Red Bull cap on for the cameras to see.

It is a race that favors skill just like it does now. You have to find lift.
You have to have situation awareness. You have to practice. But you don't
need anyone to call a PST so you can stay in the lead over a week of racing.
The guy in front is in the lead. Got it? Like a RACE! Local eliminations
create a hierarchy that competes in the Nationals.

In two years, I could have the National Champion of Sprint Racing on the
front cover of Outside Magazine. That's when it would quadruple. Sky Racing.
Cloud Sprints. Skyluges. Not gliders. Crash helmets. Not silly old man's
doofus hats. Reflexes. Not reflection. And the cool thing is that there is
no reason that the same people cannot compete. It just favors gamblers a
little more than bookies like the current thing does.

No. It's not the kindly old gentleman's sport that is now dying of
constipation. But, on the other hand, it kicks ass. It is something that
someone (spelled A M E R I C A N) would want to do. We couldn't beat the
Euros at open wheel Formula One racing. So what did we do? We started drag
racing. Honestly, the idea of being alone way the hell out in nowhere while
all my friends are getting laid is not exactly what I have in mind for a fun
weekend. On the other hand, winners get laid. Right. Get laid.

Don't be so naive as to ask what the relevance of that phrase is to growth,
attraction of youth, attraction of sponsors and money, or survival of the
fittest sport. Winners get laid and they get rewarded and they get famous.
Think about all the dead guys you know in soaring while I think about all
the dead guys I know in aviation in general. The other guys were trying to
make money, win a prize, or do the impossible. In soaring, you can lose big
but you cannot ever win big.

Cost too much for what you get. Requires too much time for what you get.
Involves too risk for what you get. It is not all those things that everyone
says about money, time and risk. It is WHAT YOU GET that your fellow
Americans don't recognize as worth it. Ever notice how their eyes glaze over
when you try to tell them about the beauty of flying with an eagle? Now tell
them about passing someone in the final stretch of a race in your bright red
Sparrowhawk to finish just out of the money and see how they follow every
word. They are the market.

Duh.

So, we have the manufacturers of 13M gliders. They have to wait until the
infrastructure creates enough pilots before they start to sell gliders in
any numbers. And the infrastructure cannot do it. And the status quo will
just want to start yet another class thereby burying these less capable
machines. No. If they want to sell, they have to sell into their own sport
with their own marketing. And they need someone like me to do it. Otherwise,
they will be a minor footnote. They must separate now, in my not so humble
opinion.

Ahhh. That felt good.




--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Mark James Boyd wrote:
Say, John,

Have you seen the latest gliders? $4,000 and they look real, real cool.
Well, at least the pilot and the FAA think it's a glider.
But don't tell anybody, ok, this will just be our little secret...shhhhh

I doubt _anyone_ thinks it's a glider, but apparently they do registered
that way sometimes. It's certainly not going to work for what John wants
to do. It might serve to introduce pilots to slope soaring and
thermalling, especially if there are two seaters, and maybe this would
whet the appetite of someone for glider that could fly cross country (or
even just to the next thermal occasionally).

Potentially, having aircraft that aren't gliders being registered as
gliders could cause us problems, such as rules and regulations (FAA,
airport, insurance) that address their operation and safety record,
which could screw up sailplane operations. I think we've been lucky that
touring motorgliders have been included in the glider category for so
long without causing apparent problems, and maybe having ultralight
airplanes in the mix won't either. Maybe all the players will understand
these are gliders by registration only, and treat them appropriately,
rather that treating all registered gliders the same.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

John Shelton wrote:
snippage

A Sprint Race (invented by ME) involves a few aircraft starting in a
cylinder at the same time (yes, i know the Euros are doing something
similar
now but I proposed it long before them), flying a short task (to
quarter
mile AST turnpoints) designed to last no more than an hour and a
half, and
finishing at a FINISH LINE in front of the gate/audience/crews. The
time
limit is important for several reasons; not the least of which is the
boredom that exists back at the strip while you are out in your ship
scratching around in two knots. Fellows: She isn't coming back out to
help
you ever again after you put her through that. But if she doesn't
have to
commit the family vacation and the entire lifestyle, gets to visit
with
other people who are excited about a race they are watching, then she
just
might. And with 30:1 ships, you just might need a crew again.....

The ships and trailers will be painted in a variety of bright colors
and
covered with vinyl advertisements not unlike the vehicles of the most
popular sport in America. If one wants to push it, then the
production
methods proposed by me for a televised race bought by Fox to be shown
ten
times could be employed. Lipstick cameras, camera ships, computer
images
(held to a minimum) and all that stuff could be used to create a
venue that
is watchable, exciting and inviting...especially when a young pilot
crawls
out of the winning ship to stand on the podium to collect his/her
check and
put his Red Bull cap on for the cameras to see.

Gee, John. It sounds like you're volunteering to CD the 1-26
Championships.
We already have "Soaring in full color". (Buy the T-shirt at the 1-26
site). It's not 30:1, but hey, put 'em in the Owens Valley in the
summertime (so you have those spectacular Sierra views and booming
lift), and nobody at home will know the difference.
Not a laminar flow wing, so put all the sponsor stickers you can afford
on 'em. A vinyl edge here and there won't hurt a thing but the gross
weight.
You can even mention that getting into competition with these things is
cheaper than some hang gliders. (The ATOS VX is about 15 grand US, a
good 1-26 is probably less than 10. That difference even pays for the
instruction, for most people.

Tim Ward

Dear John...( I've always liked that line)

It sounds like you have this all thought and planned out...why don't you
just proceed and get your contest going...? I mean, it's not as though you
need permission from us to do it. Plan the event and go to town. It's sort
of an "If you build it, they will come" type of approach. Setup the contest,
and then start inviting everyone who qualifies to come participate. It could
work out well.

Of course I won't be able to participate because you've excluded me, due to
my extra few meters of wing and a bit more L/D...so I'll just sit and sulk
and apparently not get laid...

I guess my real thought, is that there is no single thing that's going to
change our sport, because there's no one single draw to the sport. For me,
it's time alone in the mountains, enjoying my sailplane and the majestic
scenery that is all mine. I don't expect you or anyone else to get it, but
for me it's enough to keep me coming back again and again. For others, it
clearly is about racing. Maybe by not frowning on the status quo, quite so
much, but offering alternative venues, you would have a positive impact,
without offending the die hard purists who will always have their own vision
of soaring. In my opinion, it's all good...just let's get guys butts in the
seats and work to reduce the hassle of accomplishing that goal...I really
believe growth will come in incremental ways.

I do agree with you wholeheartedly on one thing and that is that soaring is
more of an extreme sport, than an old fuddy duddy sport. We don't tout
enough, it's adventurous side...I know there's a million reasons for that,
but I think we should share a bit more of what it CAN be...than what it
isn't.


respectfully,


Steve.

Why frown at the status quo? Because even the stupidest person in soaring
knows that the numbers are not keeping up with either population growth or
leisure spending or public exposure of "extreme sports". That is almost a
pure definition of the phrase "it is NOT WORKING." If you do not grow, you
die. If you do not add on youth at a much greater rate than you lose to
death and drop outs, you die.

And, no, I don't need permission to do any of this. I need 6 or 8 ships. Got
some extra money? I need to promote it outside the "community". Got some
extra money, time, connections? I need to run headlong over the top of
almost everything in existence except the guys who sell Sectionals. Got an
infrastructure?

Bang. Bang. Bang. ouch! my head.

At 09:00 02 February 2005, John Shelton wrote:
The numbers will continue to shrink in the current
environment.

The elephant in the corner of the room no one seems
to want to acknowledge...I agree that you are unfortunately
correct.

As one of many, many examples,
take snowboards. Skills derived from skateboarding
went to the ski slopes
over the dead bodies of the skiers. Now, the growth
is in shredding, not
skiing. It is not because the establishment of skiers
decided to switch. It
is because the young wanted them out of the way and
when they did not move,
they were ignored.

A beautiful analogy...skiers still don't get it. 70k
spectators at Aspen for WinterX, 1k at Vail being bored
watching World Cup.

Ever notice how their eyes glaze over
when you try to tell them about the beauty of flying
with an eagle?


John, please never stop posting here...it gives some
of us hope. You definitely let the left brain work
on soaring...something it does not do enough. Personally
I think you are missing out on some other wonderful
competition scenarios..starting with the Ipaq Olympics...prettiest
colors, best able to reconfigure, most efficient use
of battery, cleanest cables, most cluttered and unusable
screen, to be most accurate this all happens on the
ground at the airport...where Ipaq pecking order seems
to be an attraction for many.

So,
Ahhh. That felt good.