Homebuilt tax writeoff

C J Campbell wrote:

"TaxSrv" wrote in message
...

"C J Campbell" wrote:

...

I am not sure what you are claiming is a fabrication. Are you
saying that

Amazon.com and real estate tax shelters would not fail the 3 out of

5 test?

....

Pure summary, assuming all this is inappropriate for the NG. Hobby
loss rules do not apply to "C" corporations like Amazon or the
airlines. "Equal protection" arguments don't apply to noncriminal tax
issues, as Congress can allow a tax benefit, or deny a benefit, for
makers of widgets, but not gadgets. It can creep into tax-exempt org
issues, though. The practical aspects of real-life hobby loss issues
tend to render the 3/5 test moot. Recent developments in the shift of
burden of proof in Tax Court and reimbursement of representational
fees renders even the "rebuttable presumption" rather moot. IOW, it's
all a pure factual question, whether the losing, alleged business
passes the basic sniff test for hobbies.


Unless you are an IRS auditor, of course....

Formerly, but mere Auditor hell. :-) Many yrs in technical,
managerial, and training matters; civil and criminal litigation.


OK, I think we are on the same page, then. There is nothing preventing Ron
from setting up a "C" corp. Equal protection arguments do require that a law
or regulation be applied to everyone the same way. Thus, if profitability 3
out of 5 years presumes a business for profit, then it has to be applied to
everyone that way unless some exception is spelled out in the code, which
there isn't. Thus, the law can apply to widget makers or gadget makers, but
it applies equally to both unless Congress specifically says it applies only
to one or the other.

And my point is that the 3/5 test is irrelevant for almost all practical
purposes.

My own philosophy is: if there were no taxes would somebody do this as a
business? If yes, then the IRS is unlikely to have any problem with it,
either.

My main point is that neither Ron nor anybody else should base a business
decision simply on whether it passes some IRS rule which is probably
irrelevant anyway. You should make business decisions on the basis of
whether they are good business. If you do that then the IRS is nearly always
going to fall in line with what you want to do.

If you truly make good business decisions, then you'll likely make a
profit and won't have to worry about this issue! :-)

Matt

TaxSrv wrote:

"C J Campbell" wrote:

The IRS wants to see a profit in three out of five years.

This is no longer true. The IRS lost a series of court cases on this

one,

most notably because huge corporations such as Amazon.com, airlines,

and

investment real estate would have been treated as hobby losses.

Going after

only small businesses was unconstitutional under the equal

protection

clause. Now the IRS uses other tests to determine if an entity is a
business.



I've been in tax practice for 40 yrs now. Sorry, but all of the above
is a complete fabrication.

Fred F.


What is the current reality then?

Matt

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 22:16:22 -0800, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
.. .

The IRS wants to see a profit in three out of five years.

When I was in business you had to be careful about write offs. They
are a double edged sword.

If you write it off you have to pay taxes on the income from selling
it.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com