Merry Christmas to Everyone

Just seems odd to me that Kwanza is piped up to be this big African
celebration and "real" Africans have never heard of it. The Politically
Correct crowd in this country won't allow you to say Merry Christmas
without mentioning the phoney made-up "African" holiday that is Kwanza.
Just my .02. YMMV.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

Did you know that only people in America celebrate Kwanza? Folks in
Africa never heard of it!! Go figure..


Why is that so odd? It was invented here. Wouldn't you expect the primary
celebrants to be here?

http://www.cnn.com/EVENTS/1996/kwanzaa/history.html

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Just seems odd to me that Kwanza is piped up to be this big African
celebration

By whom? I never heard anyone call it an "African celebration".

and "real" Africans have never heard of it.

It's not an African tradition. It's an African-American construct,
celebrated by a minority of African-Americans, and a few other people.
There's no reason to expect Africans to have heard of it, nor is it telling
or unusual in any way that Africans have not.

The holiday does borrow a lot from African culture, but that doesn't make it
African.

The Politically Correct crowd in this country won't allow you to say Merry
Christmas without mentioning the phoney made-up "African" holiday that is
Kwanza.

Ahh, I see. You're just trying to co-opt Kwanza in your goal to write an
anti-PC tirade.

Still, I don't see why you have to be so hostile toward Kwanza. It's no
more "phoney" or "made-up" than any other holiday we celebrate. It's just a
lot newer. It's never been advertised as an "African" holiday. It's
African-American, which is an entire culture unto itself. You should at
least broaden your horizons enough to understand the difference between
"African-American" and "African". They aren't the same thing.

Pete

I wouldn't call it a "tirade" at all, you did. I said that it was my
..02 and it was. As usual with things on the left, the Political
coorectness in this country has gone way over the edge.

My horizons are broad. I don't believe in the "African-American"
bull****. 99% of black folks have never set foot in Africa and have long
been remove from relatives that are from Africa. Sorry to bust your
bubble but they are just plain old Americans just like me. Again just my
..02.

Merry Chrismas

Jon Kraus (an American not a German-American)
PP-ASEL
Student Mooney Owner

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

Just seems odd to me that Kwanza is piped up to be this big African
celebration


By whom? I never heard anyone call it an "African celebration".


and "real" Africans have never heard of it.


It's not an African tradition. It's an African-American construct,
celebrated by a minority of African-Americans, and a few other people.
There's no reason to expect Africans to have heard of it, nor is it telling
or unusual in any way that Africans have not.

The holiday does borrow a lot from African culture, but that doesn't make it
African.


The Politically Correct crowd in this country won't allow you to say Merry
Christmas without mentioning the phoney made-up "African" holiday that is
Kwanza.


Ahh, I see. You're just trying to co-opt Kwanza in your goal to write an
anti-PC tirade.

Still, I don't see why you have to be so hostile toward Kwanza. It's no
more "phoney" or "made-up" than any other holiday we celebrate. It's just a
lot newer. It's never been advertised as an "African" holiday. It's
African-American, which is an entire culture unto itself. You should at
least broaden your horizons enough to understand the difference between
"African-American" and "African". They aren't the same thing.

Pete

I wouldn't call it a "tirade" at all, you did. I said that it was my
..02 and it was. As usual with things on the left, the Political
Coorectness in this country has gone way over the edge.

My horizons are broad. I don't believe in the "African-American"
bull****. 99% of black folks have never set foot in Africa and have long
been remove from relatives that are from Africa. Sorry to bust your
bubble but they are just plain old Americans just like me. Again just my
..02.

Merry Chrismas

Jon Kraus (an American not a German-American)
PP-ASEL
Student Mooney Owner

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

Just seems odd to me that Kwanza is piped up to be this big African
celebration


By whom? I never heard anyone call it an "African celebration".


and "real" Africans have never heard of it.


It's not an African tradition. It's an African-American construct,
celebrated by a minority of African-Americans, and a few other people.
There's no reason to expect Africans to have heard of it, nor is it telling
or unusual in any way that Africans have not.

The holiday does borrow a lot from African culture, but that doesn't make it
African.


The Politically Correct crowd in this country won't allow you to say Merry
Christmas without mentioning the phoney made-up "African" holiday that is
Kwanza.


Ahh, I see. You're just trying to co-opt Kwanza in your goal to write an
anti-PC tirade.

Still, I don't see why you have to be so hostile toward Kwanza. It's no
more "phoney" or "made-up" than any other holiday we celebrate. It's just a
lot newer. It's never been advertised as an "African" holiday. It's
African-American, which is an entire culture unto itself. You should at
least broaden your horizons enough to understand the difference between
"African-American" and "African". They aren't the same thing.

Pete

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't call it a "tirade" at all, you did.

Uh, Jon, no one characterizes their own words as a tirade. But Pete's
characterization is accurate. You disparaged Kwanza as "made-up" (as though
any holiday could be other than made-up) and "phony" (because it's not a
native African celebration--even though its celebrants never claimed it
was!).

I don't believe in the "African-American"
bull****. 99% of black folks have never set foot in Africa and have long
been remove from relatives that are from Africa.

The term "African American" refers to black Americans of African ancestry.
It does not mean "people who have visited Africa, or who speak to their
relatives in Africa", contrary to your peculiar objection.

As with the holiday Kwanza, you take the term "African American" and
misrepresent its meaning in order to make it seem illegitimate. What
motivates you to do so?

Jon Kraus (an American not a German-American)

For many Xs, there are some Americans who prefer to call themselves X
Americans, some who prefer to call themselves Americans, and some who prefer
neither. Why is that difference so hard for you to understand or respect?
Why is it "bull****" for someone's preference to differ from yours in that
regard? Why do you feel the need to insult people for making a different
choice than you as to whether to put their ancestry on a par with their
nationality in their self-description?

--Gary

Everything I said is true and I stand by my statements. And yes Kwanza's
celebrants DID claim it was an African holiday. That is the bull****
part. If you are insulted by my opinion then too ****ing bad. :-) We can
agree to disgree.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner

Gary Drescher wrote:
"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

I wouldn't call it a "tirade" at all, you did.


Uh, Jon, no one characterizes their own words as a tirade. But Pete's
characterization is accurate. You disparaged Kwanza as "made-up" (as though
any holiday could be other than made-up) and "phony" (because it's not a
native African celebration--even though its celebrants never claimed it
was!).


I don't believe in the "African-American"
bull****. 99% of black folks have never set foot in Africa and have long
been remove from relatives that are from Africa.


The term "African American" refers to black Americans of African ancestry.
It does not mean "people who have visited Africa, or who speak to their
relatives in Africa", contrary to your peculiar objection.

As with the holiday Kwanza, you take the term "African American" and
misrepresent its meaning in order to make it seem illegitimate. What
motivates you to do so?


Jon Kraus (an American not a German-American)


For many Xs, there are some Americans who prefer to call themselves X
Americans, some who prefer to call themselves Americans, and some who prefer
neither. Why is that difference so hard for you to understand or respect?
Why is it "bull****" for someone's preference to differ from yours in that
regard? Why do you feel the need to insult people for making a different
choice than you as to whether to put their ancestry on a par with their
nationality in their self-description?

--Gary

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Everything I said is true and I stand by my statements. And yes Kwanza's
celebrants DID claim it was an African holiday.

Uh, *who* supposedly said that, when and where? The Kwanzaa web sites I find
say prominently that Kwanzaa is an African-American holiday founded in 1966
by Dr. Maulana Karenga, drawing in part on some African traditions (e.g.
http://www.tike.com/celeb-kw.htm).

That is the bull**** part.

No, it was the term "African American" that you called bull**** ("I don't
believe in the 'African-American' bull****. 99% of black folks have never
set foot in Africa... they are just plain old Americans like me... an
American not a German-American").

According to you, people are apparently supposed to designate themselves by
their nationality but not their ancestry. I fully respect *your* choice to
do so, but you have been unwilling or unable to explain why you object to
others choosing differently.

If you are insulted by my opinion then too ****ing bad. :-) We can agree
to disgree.

If you were confident that your position has merit, you could first make a
good-faith effort to reach agreement, or at least mutual understanding. To
do that, you would have to supply evidence for your claims (not merely keep
repeating them), and attempt to answer the questions I posed.

Instead, you practice a hit-and-run approach: you disparage others' words or
practices as "phony" and "bull****"; then, when questioned, you refuse to
discuss your opinions except to say "too ****ing bad".

Of course you have a right to behave that way, but others have a right to
respond by criticizing your behavior for what it is. That's how free speech
works--it doesn't mean freedom from criticism.

--Gary

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner

Gary Drescher wrote:
"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

I wouldn't call it a "tirade" at all, you did.


Uh, Jon, no one characterizes their own words as a tirade. But Pete's
characterization is accurate. You disparaged Kwanza as "made-up" (as
though any holiday could be other than made-up) and "phony" (because it's
not a native African celebration--even though its celebrants never
claimed it was!).


I don't believe in the "African-American"
bull****. 99% of black folks have never set foot in Africa and have long
been remove from relatives that are from Africa.


The term "African American" refers to black Americans of African
ancestry. It does not mean "people who have visited Africa, or who speak
to their relatives in Africa", contrary to your peculiar objection.

As with the holiday Kwanza, you take the term "African American" and
misrepresent its meaning in order to make it seem illegitimate. What
motivates you to do so?


Jon Kraus (an American not a German-American)


For many Xs, there are some Americans who prefer to call themselves X
Americans, some who prefer to call themselves Americans, and some who
prefer neither. Why is that difference so hard for you to understand or
respect? Why is it "bull****" for someone's preference to differ from
yours in that regard? Why do you feel the need to insult people for
making a different choice than you as to whether to put their ancestry on
a par with their nationality in their self-description?

--Gary

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
[more stuff snipped]

What Gary said.

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
The Politically
Correct crowd in this country won't allow you to say Merry Christmas
without mentioning the phoney made-up "African" holiday that is Kwanza.

heavy sigh Near as I can tell, I wished people a Merry Christmas. None of
the supposedly PC liberals mentioned Kwanza. You did.