Mountain High EDS O2 system battery

From my personal observation at FL235 and the temperature minus 26C the unit
slowed down and then failed I put the EDS onto emergency supply.

Note the steep descent after this moment LOL
http://www.mals.net/bunyan04/pages/Picture%20001.htm

In future if I go above FL180 I will have a spare battery and a battery
inside my clothing (32C degrees is about optimum battery operation body temp
is 36C) with wires and connectors coming out to connect to the EDS unit.

I will also carry a spare or emergency oxygen system.

As simply having the battery in the pocket of the glider exposes the battery
to the cold temperatures so its just as useless.

Think of another thing its freezing cold you take your hands out of the
gloves you then have to fumble with the battery and fly the glider.

Remember if you smoke at ground level you are already at 5000FT

The hypoxia curve is worth a study as well.

Is adrenalin part of the discharge curve LOL

Is there any documented discharge curve for these styles of batteries at
sub zero temps ? ....(eg) high altitude wave flight


--
keithw
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ]
- A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they
fly -

"In future if I go above FL180 I will have a spare battery and a
battery
inside my clothing (32C degrees is about optimum battery operation body
temp
is 36C) with wires and connectors coming out to connect to the EDS
unit.
I will also carry a spare or emergency oxygen system.
As simply having the battery in the pocket of the glider exposes the
battery
to the cold temperatures so its just as useless.
Think of another thing its freezing cold you take your hands out of the

gloves you then have to fumble with the battery and fly the glider."

Point(s) well made.

So far my O2 experience has been up to FL180. Certainly going far above
that brings forth other serious considerations. I have thought I would
install a continuous flow system as a back-up to the EDS if, and when I
decide to fly at those altitudes. Then also a spare/emergency?

Do you have any special considerations for the glider primary batteries
when it gets that cold?

"Go" wrote in message
oups.com...
So far my O2 experience has been up to FL180. Certainly going far above
that brings forth other serious considerations. I have thought I would
install a continuous flow system as a back-up to the EDS if, and when I
decide to fly at those altitudes. Then also a spare/emergency?

Do you have any special considerations for the glider primary batteries
when it gets that cold?


I think it depends on how long exposed as well as how cold. The ship's
lead-acid batteries have a fair amount of mass, so internal temperatures
will drop more slowly than some other stuff in the glider. Obviously,
battery location plays a role too, i.e. it's typically warmer in the cockpit
than elsewhere. Since the batteries are discharging and have some internal
resistance, the internal power dissipation also adds warmth. That said,
battery capacity at freezing will be down some 20% or more, and at -22F,
down 50%.

I understand Stemme insulated their battery installation for the wave
flights in S. America several years ago.

bumper
ZZ Minden, NV

Yes the glider batteries were packed by some pilots in foam etc.

I have also pack the baggage compartment with a spare fleece or two less air
mass to cool down and it insulates the area as well.


"bumper" wrote in message
...

"Go" wrote in message
oups.com...
So far my O2 experience has been up to FL180. Certainly going far above
that brings forth other serious considerations. I have thought I would
install a continuous flow system as a back-up to the EDS if, and when I
decide to fly at those altitudes. Then also a spare/emergency?

Do you have any special considerations for the glider primary batteries
when it gets that cold?


I think it depends on how long exposed as well as how cold. The ship's
lead-acid batteries have a fair amount of mass, so internal temperatures
will drop more slowly than some other stuff in the glider. Obviously,
battery location plays a role too, i.e. it's typically warmer in the
cockpit than elsewhere. Since the batteries are discharging and have some
internal resistance, the internal power dissipation also adds warmth. That
said, battery capacity at freezing will be down some 20% or more, and
at -22F, down 50%.

I understand Stemme insulated their battery installation for the wave
flights in S. America several years ago.

bumper
ZZ Minden, NV

X-no-archive: yes
In article , Bill Daniels
writes
I have an EDS on order and have been reading the manual available from their
web site. It says "USE 9V ALKALINE BATTERY ONLY" in caps for emphasis.
They then go on to say that you can also use and external battery of any
type you choose.

OK, so what would be wrong with using a 9V lithium smoke detector battery
that lasts 5 times longer than an alkaline? I use one of these as a backup
on my Borgelt B40 and I've never had to replace it.

Yep, I'm gonna ask Mountain High too.

Bill Daniels

This seems to me to be more of a warning not to use Zinc Chloride
batteries as these have a lower capacity and higher internal resistance.

Tim Newport-Peace

"Indecision is the Key to Flexibility."

Yep, we had this discussion just the other day and I was starting to think
that I was going to change from my constant flow system to the EDS.

This thread has caused me to decide to keep my current system.

Oxygen is relatively cheap at my field, my bottle is good sized and the
whole battery issue is a non-starter.

Thanks to all for all of your infomation, you saved me several hundred
dollars.

dave r.
"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news
I have an EDS on order and have been reading the manual available from
their
web site. It says "USE 9V ALKALINE BATTERY ONLY" in caps for emphasis.
They then go on to say that you can also use and external battery of any
type you choose.

OK, so what would be wrong with using a 9V lithium smoke detector battery
that lasts 5 times longer than an alkaline? I use one of these as a
backup
on my Borgelt B40 and I've never had to replace it.

Yep, I'm gonna ask Mountain High too.

Bill Daniels

David R. wrote:

Yep, we had this discussion just the other day and I was starting to think
that I was going to change from my constant flow system to the EDS.

This thread has caused me to decide to keep my current system.

Oxygen is relatively cheap at my field, my bottle is good sized and the
whole battery issue is a non-starter.

There really aren't any battery "issues"; these guys (including me) are
just arguing about the right guilding for the lily. Put the battery in,
turn it on, and use it. The EDS does provide automatic operation and
some audio and visual warnings that a constant flow system doesn't
provide, so it might be safer overall. But since oxygen conservation
isn't of interest to you, I'd say keep your present system and use the
money saved to buy an oximeter so you'll know your system is working for
you.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
David R. wrote:


There really aren't any battery "issues"; these guys (including me) are
just arguing about the right guilding for the lily. Put the battery in,
turn it on, and use it. The EDS does provide automatic operation and some
audio and visual warnings that a constant flow system doesn't provide, so
it might be safer overall. But since oxygen conservation isn't of interest
to you, I'd say keep your present system and use the money saved to buy an
oximeter so you'll know your system is working for you.


I agree with Eric. I use a standard alkaline battery, changed annually, with
never a problem. Besides the automatic features of the EDS (it can be set to
turn on above 10K, automatically adjusts O2 amount with altitude, etc),
there are a few additional subjective advantages.

Unlike the constant flow oximizer system I use in my Mooney, the EDS seems
kinder to mucous membranes, tending not to dry them out so much, and thus is
more comfortable to use. I haven't done a side-by-side comparison with my
oximeter, but I suspect the EDS is also more able to keep O2 saturation
levels in the good range without using prodigious amounts of oxygen,
especially when in the upper teens and above. My EDS is mounted where I
can't see the "idiot lights" but can hear the little "click-hiss" of the O2
pulse, but only when I pay attention to it in order to reassure myself the
system is working properly.

With the typical limited O2 capacity of most gliders, the EDS is almost
indispensable in enabling high altitude flights like Kempton's 1000+ mile
wave flight last year, or for flying multi-day safaris with a self-launch
and no follow-along ground support.

all the best,

bumper

"David R." wrote in message
...
Yep, we had this discussion just the other day and I was starting to think
that I was going to change from my constant flow system to the EDS.

This thread has caused me to decide to keep my current system.

Oxygen is relatively cheap at my field, my bottle is good sized and the
whole battery issue is a non-starter.

Thanks to all for all of your infomation, you saved me several hundred
dollars.

dave r.

I have the same situation. O2 is cheap but refills take time and I have to
do it for each flight. My old system used a demand mask that was
uncomfortable and it depleted the 22 Cu. Ft. bottle in about 4 hours. After
a season, that got old.

The EDS system is simplicity in action. Just put the cannulla on with the
control unit set to start O2 flow at 10k feet and go fly. The O2 supply
will last 34 hours at 18K feet which means that a refill maybe twice a
season. Convenience wise, there's no comparison.

There's also good data that says the pulse demand will get the O2 deeper
into the lungs for better blood O2 saturation. The EDS D1 system is
expensive but it's a damn good system for gliders.

Bill Daniels

A pilot (a top national competitor) told me that he uses the EDS system
because "I turn on my oxygen at the beginning of the flight and don't think
about it again".

Now that really has merit, not to need to be checking a flow meter and
fiddling with the needle valve (or forgetting to).

That said, I am still using the Nelson system, mostly because I can't seem
to talk myself into purchasing something that looks like a $5 transistor
radio for, what, $800+? It even has the transistor radio 9v battery!
Although I have heard nothing but good reports about the EDS, it still looks
cheap to me...
-Bob Korves

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
...

"David R." wrote in message
...
Yep, we had this discussion just the other day and I was starting to
think
that I was going to change from my constant flow system to the EDS.

This thread has caused me to decide to keep my current system.

Oxygen is relatively cheap at my field, my bottle is good sized and the
whole battery issue is a non-starter.

Thanks to all for all of your infomation, you saved me several hundred
dollars.

dave r.

I have the same situation. O2 is cheap but refills take time and I have
to
do it for each flight. My old system used a demand mask that was
uncomfortable and it depleted the 22 Cu. Ft. bottle in about 4 hours.
After
a season, that got old.

The EDS system is simplicity in action. Just put the cannulla on with the
control unit set to start O2 flow at 10k feet and go fly. The O2 supply
will last 34 hours at 18K feet which means that a refill maybe twice a
season. Convenience wise, there's no comparison.

There's also good data that says the pulse demand will get the O2 deeper
into the lungs for better blood O2 saturation. The EDS D1 system is
expensive but it's a damn good system for gliders.

Bill Daniels