User Fees

("George Patterson" wrote)
snip
The signs say "The inconvenience is temporary -- the improvements
permanent." So
are the tolls, it seems.


I think Denver to Boulder (30 miles?) got rid of their booths after that
toll road was paid off. My sister lives in Boulder - it was my first toll
road experience when I drove out for a visit. We don't have toll roads (yet)
in Minnesota.

We had a private party buy a 100 year old railroad-over-the-top-cars-on
the-bottom (single lane) swing bridge across the Mississippi River in the
80's. He charged a toll (only toll both in the state at the time).

That trusty old wooden decked bridge closed for good a few years ago. I
loved "The Old Bridge." sniff in my hometown of sniff St Paul Park -
downriver from St. Paul about 10 miles.

sniff, sniff. I'm ok, sniff

Hope I'm on the money with my Colorado Toll Freeway facts :-)


Montblack

"George Patterson" wrote in message
...

The problem is that the State set up a bureaucracy decades ago to run the
toll
roads. This group knows that their jobs and power base disappears if the
roads
become free, so they are continually borrowing money to "improve" the toll
system. These loans could not legally be repaid with Federal highway
funds. Four
years ago it was "EZPass." The latest effort is to remove half the toll
stations
in one direction, expand those in the other direction, and double the
tolls.

Ah yes, nothing like digging holes and filling them back up again. Here in
Mass. a senior toll collector can collect up into the low 80k range with
overtime plus state-worker bennies and union rules. For what this costs they
could easily equip every car in New England with an EZ Pass unit and cut the
cost of collection by probably 90%. Then again, now that most gas stations
are self-serve it's pretty much up to the state to provide jobs for people
willing to work but not skilled enough to get ahead.

-cwk.

"Colin W Kingsbury" posted the exciting
message link.net:

...."now that most gas stations are self-serve it's pretty much up
to the state to provide jobs for people willing to work but not
skilled enough to get ahead.


That's a great, but pathetically sad, post!

Prime Factor

"Colin W Kingsbury" wrote in
link.net:


"Dude" wrote in message
...

And then we could use the money to buy gear and pay controllers
instead of creating an all new department to manage the fee system!


Up here in Taxachusetts there's a long-standing feud over tolls on the
Massachusetts Turnpike. The law that authorized the bond issue to
build the pike said, tolls will be charged until the bonds are paid
off, then the tolls shall end. Well, the bonds were paid off more than
10 years ago, but the tollbooths persist. A couple years back when the
debate flared up, the tollbooth defenders said, "well, if we quit
collecting tolls, the state will need to come up with that $200
million some other way." Funny part is, the accountants opened the
books and figured that staffing and maintaining the tollbooths cost
the state about 60 cents on every dollar of tolls they collected. So
the net cost to the state of shutting down the tolls would be only $80
million.

Of course, the tollbooths remain. I feel quite certain that long after
the nuclear war with China, when the whole world devolves into a Mad
Maxian opera of barbarity, the last functioning piece of the
government of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts will be running the
tollbooths on the Masspike...

-cwk.



Has anyone ever taken the Massachussetts to court about keeping the tolls?
Many years ago there was a 10 cent toll on the Southern State Parkway on
Long Island, NY just before it reached the Cross County Parkway. One day
they raised the toll to 25 cents. One of the commuters was a lawyer who
looked up the statute authorizing the toll. The toll was supposed to go
away once the parkway had been paid for. It had. He sued. The toll booth
was removed.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 03:34:38 -0000, Marty Shapiro
wrote:

Has anyone ever taken the Massachussetts to court about keeping the tolls?
Many years ago there was a 10 cent toll on the Southern State Parkway on
Long Island, NY just before it reached the Cross County Parkway. One day
they raised the toll to 25 cents. One of the commuters was a lawyer who
looked up the statute authorizing the toll. The toll was supposed to go
away once the parkway had been paid for. It had. He sued. The toll booth
was removed.

This is Massachusetts... Trust me, you really don't want to go there.

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 03:34:38 -0000, Marty Shapiro
wrote:

Has anyone ever taken the Massachussetts to court about keeping the
tolls?

This is Massachusetts... Trust me, you really don't want to go there.


....sorry, I was laughing so hard I couldn't type. Massachusetts courts? I
suppose you mean the same one that found out that a 300-year-old state
constitution written by THE PILGRIMS actually required the state to permit
gay marriage. Whether gay marriage is right or wrong is an entirely
different issue, but if they can find it in our constitution (which
pre-dates the US one and is rooted in the Massachusetts General Court formed
in 1691), then the constitution clearly means whatever they want it to mean,
which is to say that it means nothing at all. I in fact narrowly favor gay
marriage, but I am also opposed to gun control, and the Massachusetts
constitution clearly endorses the right of the people to keep and bear arms
(with no reference to the militia, and in fact legal scholars increasingly
agree that the Founders intended the 2nd Amendment as an "individual
right"). But in order for me to get a pistol permit in this state, I need to
prove that I have a uniquely compelling need for it. The fact that I live in
a neighborhood that is openly patrolled by a violent street gang with links
to Al Qaeda is not by itself sufficient. So like I said, clearly the
Constitution means whatever the legislature and courts, who are largely on
the same side, want it to mean.

-cwk.

("Colin W Kingsbury" wrote)
snip
. But in order for me to get a pistol permit in this state, I need
to
prove that I have a uniquely compelling need for it. The fact that I live
in
a neighborhood that is openly patrolled by a violent street gang with
links
to Al Qaeda is not by itself sufficient. So like I said, clearly the
Constitution means whatever the legislature and courts, who are largely on
the same side, want it to mean.


Minnesota (The state where NOTHING is allowed) is a close second to Mass.

As far as your street gangs go, I wonder if GW's "security" initiatives will
ever get down to the local street level. GW has adopted a Wyatt Earp (clean
up the West) mentality as far a terrorists go, and poof - no more attacks
....for now.

We lived downtown(!!) for 5 years during the "Murder-apolis" years of the
mid 90's, shootings and stabbings all around us. (Almost 100 murders per
year. We past Miami, Boston and DC, a few more slayings and Detroit was
catchable). Saw a banger reloading his gun while strolling through our
parking lot one morning ...time to move. Ahhh, sterile suburban townhouse
security :-)

Loathing street gangs, fearing Gulags.


Montblack