fun with controllers at OSU

Garner Miller wrote:

That isn't what you asked for. You asked for a back-taxi on the active
runway, and that's something completely different. A stop-and-go means
you stop, and then GO. Not turn around, saunter back, line back up,
etc...

The controller was upset about the stop and go not the request for a
back taxi. The controller was out of line.

According to the Pilot/Controller Glossary, you were right and the
controller was wrong. You might want to talk to a quality control person at
OSU.

Bob Gardner

"Mike W." wrote in message
...
This afternoon I went out for a few laps at Ohio State. Weather was pretty
marginal, so I did 2 landings there, departed to an uncontrolled field
about
12mi away for a few, then came back. I wanted to do a few more, so I was
doing t-n-g's on the north runway. Each time, the controller said 'clear
for
the option'. So on one lap, I decided I wanted to practice a short field
landing. Stuck it, stopped and requested a back taxi. Nope, roll down to
end
and taxi back on taxiway, then reprimanded me for stopping on the runway.
He
wasn't nasty about it. 'I know you're the only one up there, but it's
baaaaaad practice...' etc.
I went through this several times when I was learning to fly there, as did
other students. Even my flight instructors would get frustrated with this
exact situation.
The airport was not at all busy. I am not arguing this guys authority or
anything, but we have to be able to practice these landings somewhere, I'm
not going to an 1500' strip out in the boonies to practice for real. I
was
this close to asking the guy for the number up in the cab, but figured
I
would just go home even more puzzled.
So, you controllers out there, what exactly am I cleared to do with
'cleared
for the option' that differs from 'clear for touch and go' or 'clear to
land'? Do I need to request, specifically, that I am wanting to practice a
short field, with full braking and a complete stop on the runway?

In article , Bob Gardner
wrote:

According to the Pilot/Controller Glossary, you were right and the
controller was wrong. You might want to talk to a quality control person at
OSU.

How do you figure?

From the P/CG:

"OPTION APPROACH- An approach requested and conducted by a pilot which
will result in either a touch-and-go, missed approach, low approach,
stop- and-go, or full stop landing."

Says the same thing the AIM says. A back-taxi is not on the above list.

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Clifton Park, NY =USA=

"Garner Miller" wrote in message
...

How do you figure?

From the P/CG:

"OPTION APPROACH- An approach requested and conducted by a pilot which
will result in either a touch-and-go, missed approach, low approach,
stop- and-go, or full stop landing."

Says the same thing the AIM says. A back-taxi is not on the above list.


The controller didn't bitch about the request for the back-taxi, he bitched
about the full-stop landing. A full-stop IS covered under the option.

Garner Miller wrote:

In article , Bob Gardner
wrote:


According to the Pilot/Controller Glossary, you were right and the
controller was wrong. You might want to talk to a quality control person at
OSU.


How do you figure?

From the P/CG:

"OPTION APPROACH- An approach requested and conducted by a pilot which
will result in either a touch-and-go, missed approach, low approach,
stop- and-go, or full stop landing."

Says the same thing the AIM says. A back-taxi is not on the above list.

Read his post. The controller was ****ed off about the fact that he
stopped, not that he wanted to back taxi.

In article , Newps
wrote:


Read his post. The controller was ****ed off about the fact that he
stopped, not that he wanted to back taxi.

I guess that wasn't clear from the original message. I read it as he
stopped on the runway, then asked a question about a 180 on the runway
while sitting stopped on the runway, and THAT'S what annoyed him.

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Clifton Park, NY =USA=

Garner Miller wrote:

In article , Bob Gardner
wrote:


According to the Pilot/Controller Glossary, you were right and the
controller was wrong. You might want to talk to a quality control person at
OSU.


How do you figure?

From the P/CG:

"OPTION APPROACH- An approach requested and conducted by a pilot which
will result in either a touch-and-go, missed approach, low approach,
stop- and-go, or full stop landing."

Says the same thing the AIM says. A back-taxi is not on the above list.


The OP said he "requested a back taxi", it didn't say he just did it
without asking. Prior to requesting the back taxi, he said he landed
and stopped on the runway. That clearly IS permitted by the "option"
landing clearance. I say he did nothing wrong and the controller
doesn't understand what "cleared for the option" means. Now, the
controller certainly wasn't obligated to approve a back-taxi, but the OP
certainly did nothing wrong based on the description given.

Matt

"Mike W." wrote in message
...

This afternoon I went out for a few laps at Ohio State. Weather was pretty
marginal, so I did 2 landings there, departed to an uncontrolled field
about
12mi away for a few, then came back. I wanted to do a few more, so I was
doing t-n-g's on the north runway. Each time, the controller said 'clear
for
the option'. So on one lap, I decided I wanted to practice a short field
landing. Stuck it, stopped and requested a back taxi. Nope, roll down to
end
and taxi back on taxiway, then reprimanded me for stopping on the runway.
He
wasn't nasty about it. 'I know you're the only one up there, but it's
baaaaaad practice...' etc.
I went through this several times when I was learning to fly there, as did
other students. Even my flight instructors would get frustrated with this
exact situation.
The airport was not at all busy. I am not arguing this guys authority or
anything, but we have to be able to practice these landings somewhere, I'm
not going to an 1500' strip out in the boonies to practice for real. I
was
this close to asking the guy for the number up in the cab, but figured
I
would just go home even more puzzled.
So, you controllers out there, what exactly am I cleared to do with
'cleared
for the option' that differs from 'clear for touch and go' or 'clear to
land'? Do I need to request, specifically, that I am wanting to practice a
short field, with full braking and a complete stop on the runway?


What you did was covered under "cleared for the option".

"Mike W." wrote in message
...
This afternoon I went out for a few laps at Ohio State. Weather was pretty
marginal, so I did 2 landings there, departed to an uncontrolled field
about
12mi away for a few, then came back. I wanted to do a few more, so I was
doing t-n-g's on the north runway. Each time, the controller said 'clear
for
the option'. So on one lap, I decided I wanted to practice a short field
landing. Stuck it, stopped and requested a back taxi. Nope, roll down to
end
and taxi back on taxiway, then reprimanded me for stopping on the runway.
He
wasn't nasty about it. 'I know you're the only one up there, but it's
baaaaaad practice...' etc.
I went through this several times when I was learning to fly there, as did
other students. Even my flight instructors would get frustrated with this
exact situation.
The airport was not at all busy. I am not arguing this guys authority or
anything, but we have to be able to practice these landings somewhere, I'm
not going to an 1500' strip out in the boonies to practice for real. I
was
this close to asking the guy for the number up in the cab, but figured
I
would just go home even more puzzled.
So, you controllers out there, what exactly am I cleared to do with
'cleared
for the option' that differs from 'clear for touch and go' or 'clear to
land'? Do I need to request, specifically, that I am wanting to practice a
short field, with full braking and a complete stop on the runway?

Was he upset that you stopped on the runway, or that you requested a
backtaxi? Stopping is not a problem as long as you're going to take off
from the stopping point or clear the runway. As others have mentioned, a
backtaxi is not included in an "option" clearance.

I fly out of OSU as well and have found that since it is a Non Federal
Control Tower the controllers there can have an unfriendly attitude
depending on which controller is working at the time. I do not know them
except having met the control tower manager a few times, he is concerned
about the less than friendly treatment that students and others get at
OSU so I encourage you to call.

The management is aware that they have a reputation as being nonstudent
friendly and have encouraged local pilots to respond to surveys
regarding the service.

It sounds like to me that the controller made a mistake.

Bruce.