STAR's and SID's

What are the *real world* implications of flying into busy airspace IFR in a
piston single/light twin..this is all assuming that you do NOT have a way of
navigating

When I file my IFR flight plan I put into remarks NO STARS NO SIP
Hank

I'm curious. I know pilots who make a habit of including the "NO STARs NO
SIDs" comment on the flight plan. I have flown both STARs and SIDs...what's
so bad about them?

"Hankal" wrote in message
...
What are the *real world* implications of flying into busy airspace IFR
in a
piston single/light twin..this is all assuming that you do NOT have a way
of
navigating

When I file my IFR flight plan I put into remarks NO STARS NO SIP
Hank

I'm curious. I know pilots who make a habit of including the "NO STARs NO
SIDs" comment on the flight plan. I have flown both STARs and SIDs...what's
so bad about them?

NOS used to publish the SIDs and STARs apart from the instrument approaches,
in a separate volume. A lot of pilots didn't have it, so they would put "No
SIDs no STARs" in the remarks. About 10 years ago (I think), NOS began
publishing the SIDs and STARs in the same volumes as the approaches (as NACO
does now). Some pilots who were taught to write "No SIDs no STARs" keep doing
it, often without knowing why.

Barry

the north las vegas Northtown1 departure is a pain in the ass.
you have to go out like 10 miles towards mountain, the last time I did it the
turbulence was so bad I thought it would tear my plane apart. then you turn back
in towards LAS and hopefully LAS approach will pick you up and give you vectors
out.


Brad Z wrote:

I'm curious. I know pilots who make a habit of including the "NO STARs NO
SIDs" comment on the flight plan. I have flown both STARs and SIDs...what's
so bad about them?

"Hankal" wrote in message
...
What are the *real world* implications of flying into busy airspace IFR
in a
piston single/light twin..this is all assuming that you do NOT have a way
of
navigating

When I file my IFR flight plan I put into remarks NO STARS NO SIP
Hank

I tried that one time out of North Las Vegas, the tower told me that I have a
choise of doing the SID or waiting untill Las Vegas International stoped the
incomming and out going flights for me. I left VFR and picked up my clearence in
the air.

Now I usually pick up my clearence in the air unless I need it to get in the air.



Hankal wrote:

What are the *real world* implications of flying into busy airspace IFR in a
piston single/light twin..this is all assuming that you do NOT have a way of
navigating

When I file my IFR flight plan I put into remarks NO STARS NO SIP
Hank

In article ,
(Hankal) wrote:

When I file my IFR flight plan I put into remarks NO STARS NO SIP

Why do you do this?

The AIM (section 5-2-6-e-8) says:

"ATC must be immediately advised if the pilot does not possess the
assigned SID, or the aircraft is not capable of flying the SID.
Notification may be accomplished by filing "NO SID" in the remarks
section of the filed flight plan"

Given that SIDs are published in both the NOS and Jepp books, it's hard
to believe you would not posses them. I can see the aircraft being
incapable of flying some particular SID (not having the right nav
equipment or sufficient climb performance), but it sounds like you just
blanket turn down all SID assignments. This I don't understand.

I once did have to turn down a SID because I couldn't fly it. Leaving
Miami for Key West in a 172, I got some SID that looked like it required
DME, which I didn't have, so I told the controller. He hemmed and hawed
for a while, and eventually came back with, "I tell ya' what, ammend
your clearance, you are cleared to Key West via radar vectors direct,
enjoy your flight". That's about 400 miles worth of radar vectors. I
then told him that I wanted to follow the island chain down to avoid the
long overwater. He said, "Yeah, no problem, just do what you need to
and let us know where you're going" or something like that.

They don't do clearances like that in the northeast :-)

If they want you to follow a SID and you have stated NO SIDS, as far as ATC
is concerned you do not have the graphical representation in the
cockpit...and they will just tell you what to do. You don't escape flying
the procedure.

Bob Gardner

"Hankal" wrote in message
...
What are the *real world* implications of flying into busy airspace IFR
in a
piston single/light twin..this is all assuming that you do NOT have a way
of
navigating

When I file my IFR flight plan I put into remarks NO STARS NO SIP
Hank

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:FkkMb.27887$I06.187743@attbi_s01...

If they want you to follow a SID and you have stated NO SIDS, as far as
ATC
is concerned you do not have the graphical representation in the
cockpit...and they will just tell you what to do. You don't escape flying
the procedure.


Do you also state, NO SIAPS?