Gear Warning

At 21:18 16 November 2005, Nigel Pocock wrote:

One problem with a recorded voice is that it sounds
like background radio chatter and your brain filters
it out (or at least mine does)
Our CFI discovered this the hard way in our brand new
DG1000. luckily landed on soft grass so no damage.

Having broadcast this fact to the entire world wide
web under your own name, you are now a marked man.
Enjoy your next check flight!

Had a similar situation today in the same glider. A
lot of radio chatter from joining powered aircraft
drowned out the quiet, almost apologetic, female voice
warning.

Got the wheel down though.

Ed.

At 22:36 16 November 2005, Gary Emerson wrote:
So does the BGA recommend to use a pre-landing checklist
where the
spoilers are checked? If the spoilers are checked
early in the pattern
then the logic regarding gear warning systems is not
very logical.


Yes, pre-landing checks are carried out; they include
checking the gear is down. If you do the checks your
gear shouldn't be up on approach. If you don't do
the checks you wouldn't have checked either gear or
airbrakes and you'll be distracted on approach by the
buzzer. You don't need a buzzer; just carry out your
checks.

Mark Dickson wrote:
At 22:36 16 November 2005, Gary Emerson wrote:

So does the BGA recommend to use a pre-landing checklist
where the

spoilers are checked? If the spoilers are checked
early in the pattern
then the logic regarding gear warning systems is not
very logical.



Yes, pre-landing checks are carried out; they include
checking the gear is down. If you do the checks your
gear shouldn't be up on approach. If you don't do
the checks you wouldn't have checked either gear or
airbrakes and you'll be distracted on approach by the
buzzer. You don't need a buzzer; just carry out your
checks.



For most, the gear warning buzzer will only be heard when pulling
spoilers at altitude to intentionally descend. However, it's a nice
feature to have on that day when you left the gear down the whole
flight. You won't find this mistake on short final, but most likely
very early on in the pattern where it's a quick fix and not likely to
add extra risk in the landing phase.

Hi Gary,

I'm with Gary. The ideas is to do your checklist (including an airbrake
check) as you enter the pattern. If your gear is down at that point you
will hear a voice telling you very clearly and repeatedly "landing gear is
up, lower landing gear" and you will fix the problem on downwind.

I think main thing this discussion has done is show that many people don't
do thorough downwind checklists.

Certainly, no gadget is going to help some pilots and it is true that last
minute distractions are to be avoided - so test your airbrakes on downwind
after "lowering" your landing gear and the problem will go away. If you
have changed your gear from down to up you will hear a warning to lower your
gear.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde

"Gary Emerson" wrote in message
om...
Mark Dickson wrote:
At 22:36 16 November 2005, Gary Emerson wrote:

So does the BGA recommend to use a pre-landing checklist
where the

spoilers are checked? If the spoilers are checked
early in the pattern then the logic regarding gear warning systems is not
very logical.



Yes, pre-landing checks are carried out; they include
checking the gear is down. If you do the checks your
gear shouldn't be up on approach. If you don't do
the checks you wouldn't have checked either gear or
airbrakes and you'll be distracted on approach by the
buzzer. You don't need a buzzer; just carry out your
checks.



For most, the gear warning buzzer will only be heard when pulling spoilers
at altitude to intentionally descend. However, it's a nice feature to
have on that day when you left the gear down the whole flight. You won't
find this mistake on short final, but most likely very early on in the
pattern where it's a quick fix and not likely to add extra risk in the
landing phase.

At 22:36 16 November 2005, Gary Emerson wrote:
So does the BGA recommend to use a pre-landing checklist
where the
spoilers are checked? If the spoilers are checked
early in the pattern
then the logic regarding gear warning systems is not
very logical.


Yes, pre-landing checks are carried out; they include
checking the gear is down. If you do the checks your
gear shouldn't be up on approach. If you don't do
the checks you wouldn't have checked either gear or
airbrakes and you'll be distracted on approach by the
buzzer. You don't need a buzzer; just carry out your
checks.

Mark Dickson wrote:
Yes, pre-landing checks are carried out; they include
checking the gear is down. If you do the checks your
gear shouldn't be up on approach. If you don't do
the checks you wouldn't have checked either gear or
airbrakes and you'll be distracted on approach by the
buzzer. You don't need a buzzer; just carry out your
checks.

Spoiler checks are easy to get right, and become pretty automatic for
most. Landing gear is not so simple for those fly multiple gliders,
some with fixed landing gear, some with gear handles that move the
"wrong" way, etc. Plus, for those of us who land at asphalt, dirt, or
gravels strips, a gear up landing is a US$1000 or so mistake. I'll keep
my gear warning, thanks. I've only heard one once in anger, and it was
well worth the momentary distraction...

At 23:30 16 November 2005, Mike The Strike wrote:
While the BGA rule might make some sense landing on
a grass runway (or
mud, as it is in Britain), I wouldn't like to see anyone
land a nice
glass ship on our Arizona rock and gravel runways.

I am also not sure I would agree with their rationale.
In my opinion,
it would be a particularly inept pilot who could not
lower his/her gear
at all but the final stages of a landing approach and
who might be
startled by a radio call so badly they lost control.
The BGA procedure
also now leaves an immobile glider sitting in the middle
of the runway
- another hazard!

Perhaps some BGA members could illuminate us on why
their ruling body
considers them incapable of taking corrective action
when landing?

Mike


I thought someone had explained. Not doing your pre-landing
checks and landing with the wheel up is inexcusable
and embarrassing, but not a big deal damagewise. At
most a bit of gel repair needed. Getting distracted
on approach, changing hands on stick, letting go of
airbrake lever, rushing to lower gear and not monitoring
the approach could, and obviously has, proved disastrous.
The inept pilot is the one who does not follow basic
airmanship routines such as checks.

Pilots who can't respond to a gear warning or radio call probably
shouldn't be flying at all! This isn't a big multi-tasking job. What
would such a person do if the canopy popped open, the brake handle came
off in his hands or the spoilers opened on takeoff?

In a sailplane with a left-handed gear handle, all it takes is- brakes
closed, gear down, brakes open again. I timed it at 3 to 4 seconds in
an ASW 20.

With a right-handed gear handle, you have to close brakes, switch
hands, put gear down, switch back, brakes open, in 4 to 6 seconds. On
downwind, you have plenty of time to do this and even on final if it
isn't too short. At 50 knots, 6 seconds represents no moe than about
600 feet - say 200 meters.

BGA sounds a bit like a mother hen!

Mike

Ever seen a pilot with a fixation flying off the end of the runway with
his gear going up and down instead of his spoilers? Surprising how even
competent people can get caught out and flustered by the unexpected. This
is a cost versus safety argument and you takes your pick but BGA
recommendations are not cost-orientated.

Mike the Strike wrote:

Pilots who can't respond to a gear warning or radio call probably
shouldn't be flying at all! This isn't a big multi-tasking job. What
would such a person do if the canopy popped open, the brake handle came
off in his hands or the spoilers opened on takeoff?

In a sailplane with a left-handed gear handle, all it takes is- brakes
closed, gear down, brakes open again. I timed it at 3 to 4 seconds in
an ASW 20.

With a right-handed gear handle, you have to close brakes, switch
hands, put gear down, switch back, brakes open, in 4 to 6 seconds. On
downwind, you have plenty of time to do this and even on final if it
isn't too short. At 50 knots, 6 seconds represents no moe than about
600 feet - say 200 meters.

BGA sounds a bit like a mother hen!

Mike

In article .com, Mike
the Strike writes
Pilots who can't respond to a gear warning or radio call probably
shouldn't be flying at all! This isn't a big multi-tasking job. What
would such a person do if the canopy popped open, the brake handle came
off in his hands or the spoilers opened on takeoff?

In a sailplane with a left-handed gear handle, all it takes is- brakes
closed, gear down, brakes open again. I timed it at 3 to 4 seconds in
an ASW 20.

With a right-handed gear handle, you have to close brakes, switch
hands, put gear down, switch back, brakes open, in 4 to 6 seconds. On
downwind, you have plenty of time to do this and even on final if it
isn't too short. At 50 knots, 6 seconds represents no moe than about
600 feet - say 200 meters.

BGA sounds a bit like a mother hen!



Mike


Odd you should say that. There is a lot of talk in this country about
"The Nanny State", by which is meant the propensity of the authorities
to control every aspect of our lives. Perhaps the BGA have been bitten
by the same bug?

--
Mike Lindsay