Helicopter Question

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
[...]
I find your qualification of "pretty much anywhere that there *isn't*
Class G airspace" to lack any mention of the necessity for the Special
VFR clearance to be flown within the CONTROLLED AIRSPACE SURFACE AREA
OF AN AIRPORT.

Why?

Pick a point in space that is "near the surface" (for the purposes of this
discussion, let's say 500', but anything lower than the floor of the basic
Class E airspace would be fine) that is NOT Class G airspace. The odds that
you can obtain a Special VFR clearance in that airspace are excellent,
because near the surface, the usual reason for the airspace NOT being Class
G airspace is that it's the controlled airspace around an airport.

So I must be misinterpreting what you wrote, or FAR §91.157.

Yup, you must be.

[...]
Ah. So implicit in being less than 700' AGL while being in Class B,
C, D or E controlled airspace, is the notion that you are within an
airport's surface area of controlled airspace, for it is the only
controlled airspace charted to the surface.

Yes. If you understand this, I don't see why you still don't understand
what I wrote.

[...]
In decades of flying, I had never considered the fact that controlled
airspace ONLY reaches the surface at airport surface areas be they
controlled airports or not.

Why not? And why is that relevant here?

[...]
If "91.157 grants them this right elsewhere (with a Special VFR
clearance)," it must be possible to obtain Special VFR clearance at
(for example in southern California):

Paso Robles (PRB) an uncontrolled airport
Blythe (BLH) an uncontrolled airport
Needles (EED) an uncontrolled airport
Desert Resorts Regional (TRM) an uncontrolled airport
Imperial Co (IPL) an uncontrolled airport
Within the Class E surface extensions of many controlled airports

Is that actually the case?

Yes. A tower at the airport in question is not required for a Special VFR
clearance.

Pete

On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:25:28 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::


Yes. A tower at the airport in question is not required for a Special VFR
clearance.

I had no idea that was the case, but the AIM confirms it:

http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0404.html#4-4-5
b. When a control tower is located within the Class B, Class C, or
Class D surface area, requests for clearances should be to the
tower. In a Class E surface area, a clearance may be obtained from
the nearest tower, FSS, or center.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
Yes. A tower at the airport in question is not required for a Special VFR
clearance.

I had no idea that was the case, but the AIM confirms it:

Yes, I know.

For what it's worth, it helps to remember that a Special VFR clearance is in
essence an IFR clearance for VFR traffic (even though, obviously, it's not
literally an IFR clearance at all). That is, the Special VFR clearance has
the same effect for the VFR aircraft than an IFR approach clearance has for
an IFR aircraft: it dedicates the controlled airspace protecting the
approach and airport to that one aircraft.

So, just as one can obtain an IFR approach clearance for an uncontrolled
airport, one can obtain a Special VFR clearance for an uncontrolled airport,
and for the same reasons.

Pete

On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 17:11:37 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::


So, just as one can obtain an IFR approach clearance for an uncontrolled
airport, one can obtain a Special VFR clearance for an uncontrolled airport,
and for the same reasons.

That's not quite how I understand it. Isn't a Special VFR clearance
only available in controlled airspace?

IFR approach/departure clearances are available in Class G airspace as
well, right