Another Cirrus Down

Bob

I learned somethig each time I flew even after thousands of hours.

If you have quit learning then you should quit flying.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:42:28 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote
An unsafe pilot is one who no longer considers him/herself to be a
student.

Well, I sure as hell don't consider myself to still be a student.
Not after 20,000+ flight hours.

Bob Moore
ATP B-707 B-727 L-188
Flight Instructor Airplane/Instrument Airplane
USN S-2F P-2V P-3B
PanAm (retired)

So for the student pilots reading this...don't do stupid things.

... that would be all pilots ;-)


An unsafe pilot is one who no longer considers him/herself to be a student.



Please give me the wisdom to realize whats stupid. I believe stupid is a slippery slope.


Paul

wrote

Please give me the wisdom to realize whats stupid. I believe stupid is a
slippery slope.

That's an easy one.

If you have to stop and think, deciding if it is stupid or not, it is
probably stupid! g
--
Jim in NC

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:32:08 -0800, Mark Hansen
wrote:

On 12/13/2005 08:26, Ron Lee wrote:

Is there a way to get a weather report from that location/time?

After looking at the pic my thought was that there are too many
senseless crashes resulting in death. I suspect that in many it is
pilot error and I have no idea how you instill in pilots common sense
or a way to suppress "get home-itis."

I also wonder if the Cirrus parachute system gives some pilots a false
sense of security.

Knowing a number of pilots who fly them I'm certain of it. I think
any one flying with the knowledge of a parachute tied to the plane
that is supposed to save your but can not be ignored.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

So for the student pilots reading this...don't do stupid things.

... that would be all pilots ;-)

and it's good advice.


Ron Lee

Is there a way to get a weather report from that location/time?

Within 24 hours, you can get the local METAR data from the FAA 24-cycle
files, on a FTP site.

Generally the weather, in the form of a METAR, is part of the FAA
preliminary accident report, but the one for the Cirrus crash lists the
weather as unknown.

After looking at the pic my thought was that there are too many
senseless crashes resulting in death. I suspect that in many it is
pilot error and I have no idea how you instill in pilots common sense
or a way to suppress "get home-itis."

All mistakes are "operator error" of some sort. That's the nature of
mistakes. The real question is how the error or errors could have been
averted. Is there something in the design of the equipment that is causing
the operator to make errors, etc.

I also wonder if the Cirrus parachute system gives some pilots a false
sense of security.

That's been the charge, and a suspiscion of pilots since the system was
announced. However, there still have been a number of accidents, including
this one, where the parachute was not deployed. It does not appear that
there are too many parachute incidents, whereas the 'chute was deployed when
normal piloting technique would have recovered from the problem.

So for the student pilots reading this...don't do stupid things.

Of course.

Is there a way to get a weather report from that location/time?

("Charles Oppermann" wrote)
Within 24 hours, you can get the local METAR data from the FAA 24-cycle
files, on a FTP site.

Generally the weather, in the form of a METAR, is part of the FAA
preliminary accident report, but the one for the Cirrus crash lists the
weather as unknown.


The crash site is in the southwest corner of Minnesota - 15 miles east of
the South Dakota border, 70 miles north of Iowa.


Montblack

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:59:32 -0800, "Charles Oppermann"
wrote in
::

Is there a way to get a weather report from that location/time?

Within 24 hours, you can get the local METAR data from the FAA 24-cycle
files, on a FTP site.

You can go back a little farther than that he
http://www.weather.gov/climate/index.php?wfo=oax
but there is better historical data available.

According to the report at:
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5777938.html

David Johnson, Mark's brother, said the three were leaving Wayne,
Neb., after attending a birthday party for Arthur's sister and
were headed toward Flying Cloud Airport in Eden Prairie [the
evening of December 10, 2005].

Assuming that the departure airport was:

KLCG Wayne, NE, USA Wayne Municipal Airport

And the destination airport was:

KFCM Minneapolis, MN, USA Flying Cloud Airport


Here is the December 10, 2005 observed weather around 9pm local:

KLCG Wayne, NE, USA Wayne Municipal Airport
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/data/obhistory/KLCG.html

D Time Wind Vis. Weather Sky Cond.
A (cst) (mph) (mi.) Temperature (ºF)
T Air Dwpt
E

10 22:11 NW 13 G 20 10.00 Overcast OVC029 36 32 29.93 NA
10 21:51 NW 13 G 17 10.00 Overcast OVC027 36 32 29.93 NA
10 21:31 NW 13 10.00 Overcast OVC027 36 32 29.93 NA
10 21:11 NW 12 10.00 Overcast OVC027 36 32 29.93 NA
10 20:51 NW 13 10.00 Overcast OVC027 36 32 29.93 NA

KFCM Minneapolis, MN, USA Flying Cloud Airport
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/data/obhistory/KFCM.html

D Time Wind Vis. Weather Sky Cond.
A (cst) (mph) (mi.) Temperature (ºF)
T Air Dwpt
E

10 22:53 N 16 G 25 10.00 Partly Cloudy SCT031 25 14 29.72 1007.3
10 21:53 NW 20 G 29 10.00 A Few Clouds FEW036 27 16 29.68 1006.2
10 20:53 NW 18 G 25 10.00 Overcast OVC039 30 19 29.66 1005.5
10 19:53 NW 21 G 29 10.00 Overcast and Breezy BKN031 OVC041 31 21
29.63 1004.5

I wonder how easy it is to get to the chute handle while the plane is
plunging out of control. I once slipped out of a 4 point harness while
doing inverted spins and found it very, very difficult to get to the
rudders to stop the spin. I wonder if the forces of a plunging Cirrus
could make it hard to get out. In the military there are always a
couple ways to eject partially for this reason.

-Robert, CFI

Ron Lee wrote:
Is there a way to get a weather report from that location/time?

After looking at the pic my thought was that there are too many
senseless crashes resulting in death. I suspect that in many it is
pilot error and I have no idea how you instill in pilots common sense
or a way to suppress "get home-itis."

I also wonder if the Cirrus parachute system gives some pilots a false
sense of security.

So for the student pilots reading this...don't do stupid things.

To a point. However, in the end we are all responsible adults. We are
fortunate that the gov't still allows us to be responsible in aviation.
We could live in a horrible world where the FAA regulated everything to
a point this accident can't happen. Having the freedom to make your own
decisions and choices carries with it the ability to hurth yourself. I,
for one, am thankful that I live in a county where I still have the
freedom to hurt myself.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

So for the student pilots reading this...don't do stupid things.

To a point. However, in the end we are all responsible adults. We are
fortunate that the gov't still allows us to be responsible in aviation.
We could live in a horrible world where the FAA regulated everything to
a point this accident can't happen. Having the freedom to make your own
decisions and choices carries with it the ability to hurth yourself. I,
for one, am thankful that I live in a county where I still have the
freedom to hurt myself.

-Robert

As long as you only hurt yourself I agree.

Ron Lee