CFI practical test - aircraft required

You also need an airplane available that can be legally
spun.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Peter Clark"
wrote in message
...
| On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 23:07:50 GMT, kontiki

| wrote:
|
| I am sure this subject has been brought up before (why?
because the
| answer is not immediately obvious in the FARs) but I'd
appreciate
| some input from the knowledge base.
|
| I'm close to scheduling my CFI checkride (practical teat
to be precise)
| and although I've always assumed it had to be performed
in a complex
| airplane (and have been doing all the right seat flying
in one), I can
| not find a direct refrence in part 61 as to the
requirement for such an
| airplane. The most pertinent references I can find refer
to training
| and logging PIC in ".. the category and class of aircraft
that is
| appropriate to the flight instructor rating being
sought".
|
| This sort of reference appears several times throughout
61.185 but I
| never see a direct reference to a "complex" airplane. So
my question,
| and that raised by my instructor today (gold seal BTW) is
where did
| this come from? He assured me he did his CFI checkride in
a 152...
|
| Any comments [and FAR references] are appreciated.
|
| It's enumerated in the PTS - top of page 9 (bullet 3 under
"Aircraft
| and Equipment Required for the Practical Test" - "A
complex airplane
| must be furnished for the performance of takeoff and
landing
| maneuvers, and appropriate emergency procedures.")
|
| I would expect that since CFIs can give complex/HP
endorsements, it's
| not unreasonable to have the CFI-ASEL checkride be
conducted in such
| an aircraft.

Not true.


On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:28:26 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

You also need an airplane available that can be legally
spun.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes that an
endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the task is
required. In the event of no endorsement (or the examiner not
substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be required.

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 01:32:40 GMT, Bill Zaleski
wrote:

Not true.


On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:28:26 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

You also need an airplane available that can be legally
spun.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

Peter Clark wrote:
Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes that an
endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the task is
required. In the event of no endorsement (or the examiner not
substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be required.

If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and landings, how would
one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft to FSDO (if a
FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok to spin? The one
I did my CFI in wasn't.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:27:13 -0600, Rachel wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes that an
endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the task is
required. In the event of no endorsement (or the examiner not
substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be required.

If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and landings, how would
one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft to FSDO (if a
FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok to spin? The one
I did my CFI in wasn't.

I don't know about the complex aircraft question, but I'm sure there's
some way around it if you had to demonstrate them. How about go to
the FSDO, pick up the examiner, bring them back to your home field for
the spin portion of the exam? Or have your CFI ferry the spin capable
aircraft over to the airport the checkride was going to take place in
with you then disappear for a while you get the checkride over with?
Once the examiner is assigned, I presume it would be fair game to ask
them if they'd accept the endorsement so you can arrange appropriate
aircraft for all the pieces of the checkride?

Show up with a Complex Aircraft and the Spin Endorsement completed..
If the Examiner REQUIRES the SPIN as part of the test.. then get a
continuance letter specifying what is complete and what is not complete and
what needs to be accomplished to complete.

It always boggles my mind.. it's the same as showing up for a Commercial
check ride in a non complex aircraft.. and swapping aircraft for a couple of
landings in complex aircraft... just do the whole check ride in complex.

BT

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:27:13 -0600, Rachel wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes that an
endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the task is
required. In the event of no endorsement (or the examiner not
substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be required.

If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and landings, how would
one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft to FSDO (if a
FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok to spin? The one
I did my CFI in wasn't.

I don't know about the complex aircraft question, but I'm sure there's
some way around it if you had to demonstrate them. How about go to
the FSDO, pick up the examiner, bring them back to your home field for
the spin portion of the exam? Or have your CFI ferry the spin capable
aircraft over to the airport the checkride was going to take place in
with you then disappear for a while you get the checkride over with?
Once the examiner is assigned, I presume it would be fair game to ask
them if they'd accept the endorsement so you can arrange appropriate
aircraft for all the pieces of the checkride?

R u paying for my training in a complex for all the other required stuff ?

easy with my money pal..


"BTIZ" wrote in message
newsdkwf.8776$V.3820@fed1read04...
Show up with a Complex Aircraft and the Spin Endorsement completed..
If the Examiner REQUIRES the SPIN as part of the test.. then get a
continuance letter specifying what is complete and what is not complete
and what needs to be accomplished to complete.

It always boggles my mind.. it's the same as showing up for a Commercial
check ride in a non complex aircraft.. and swapping aircraft for a couple
of landings in complex aircraft... just do the whole check ride in
complex.

BT

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:27:13 -0600, Rachel wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes that an
endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the task is
required. In the event of no endorsement (or the examiner not
substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be required.

If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and landings, how would
one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft to FSDO (if a
FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok to spin? The one
I did my CFI in wasn't.

I don't know about the complex aircraft question, but I'm sure there's
some way around it if you had to demonstrate them. How about go to
the FSDO, pick up the examiner, bring them back to your home field for
the spin portion of the exam? Or have your CFI ferry the spin capable
aircraft over to the airport the checkride was going to take place in
with you then disappear for a while you get the checkride over with?
Once the examiner is assigned, I presume it would be fair game to ask
them if they'd accept the endorsement so you can arrange appropriate
aircraft for all the pieces of the checkride?

Two aircraft may be required. The Beech F33C was acrobatic,
T34 are now subject to an AD. If the examiner knows and
respects the school and or recommending CFI, they will
usually accept the "spin endorsement" but an examiner always
has the option to require everything, that means more than
one plane is always a possibility. You note that I said
"available" in my original post. It is a good idea to know
what to expect and to have a suitable plane reserved if the
examiner wants to spin. [Some really like to spin and some
will anything to avoid it.]


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Rachel" wrote in message
. ..
| Peter Clark wrote:
| Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes
that an
| endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the
task is
| required. In the event of no endorsement (or the
examiner not
| substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be
required.
|
| If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and
landings, how would
| one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft to
FSDO (if a
| FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok to
spin? The one
| I did my CFI in wasn't.

That is what I had to do. I brought my Mooney and the Decathlon.

-Robert

BTW: One of the reasons I had to bring my Mooney was that my POH also
prohibits cross countrol stalls, something the examiner can select from
the POH. I did speak with a CFI who used to teach cross control stalls
in a Mooney anway. One day he aged 20 years in 2 minutes, he no longer
does them.

-robert