ASK 21 spin ballast installation

Hard to imagine a spin that didn't exceed 60 degrees
of bank and 30 degrees of pitch at some point. Surely
that makes a chute mandatory under FAR's?

I had a spin go flat in a Grob Twin II (essentially
an early version of the Grob 103) when conducting aft
C of G spin tests for UK certification around 1980.
Didn't quite get to the point of unstrapping and leaning
forward, but it took about three turns of cycling the
stick back and forward to 'rock' it out (that's after
the point where it had flattened noticably and a normal
recovery hadn't worked). I was certainly close to
the decidion to bale out.

Careful re-weighing and re-calculation confirmed it
was on aft C of G, but not beyond. Communication with
the manufacturer produced a flat denial that any such
thing had occured during testing in Germany.

Further careful tests, approaching the same condition
gradually, over a number of flights, eventually resulted
in an uneventful spin and recovery with exactly the
same conditions of weight and balance as those when
the problem occurred.

'Rogue' spins are very rare, but they can occurr.
Most of the other accounts of them that I have heard
relate to normally very benign types, such as most
of the Grob varients.



At 00:30 03 March 2006, Mark Lenox wrote:

Wear a chute.

I spent alot of time at Estrella in the late 80's.
During that time, the
guy who owned the place, Les Horvath, just about spun
in a Grob 103. Les is
an extremely talented and experienced acro pilot.
He was intentionally
demonstrating a spin while doing a cockpit checkout
for a new instructor.
If I am not mistaken, this was the technique he used
to spin the 103. The
spin went flat and was not recoverable except by the
rear passenger
unbuckling his belts and throwing himself forward over
the rear instrument
panel to move the CG. Afterwards he told me personally
that he would have
bailed out if he had a chute on. He was that convinced
they were not going
to get it unstuck. I think it's just a plain old
good idea to wear one any
time this serious of a maneuver is to be attempted.


Mark


'Stefan' wrote in message
...
Marc Ramsey wrote:

Technique that has worked for me in just about every
21 or 103 I've
...

Thanks, I'll try that as soon as spring is coming.
Not exactly the kind of
spin entry you're looking for in an aerobatic program,
though.

Stefan

Chutes are not required for spin training if done by a flight instructor for
maneuvers required by the regulations for a particular certificate. FAR
91.307d2i

So, for one possible example, if you were getting the spin training
requirements taken care of in preparation for a CFI checkride (which
requires spin training), the parachute requirement is removed.

I always wear mine.

Mark


"Chris Rollings" wrote in message
...
Hard to imagine a spin that didn't exceed 60 degrees
of bank and 30 degrees of pitch at some point. Surely
that makes a chute mandatory under FAR's?

I had a spin go flat in a Grob Twin II (essentially
an early version of the Grob 103) when conducting aft
C of G spin tests for UK certification around 1980.
Didn't quite get to the point of unstrapping and leaning
forward, but it took about three turns of cycling the
stick back and forward to 'rock' it out (that's after
the point where it had flattened noticably and a normal
recovery hadn't worked). I was certainly close to
the decidion to bale out.

Careful re-weighing and re-calculation confirmed it
was on aft C of G, but not beyond. Communication with
the manufacturer produced a flat denial that any such
thing had occured during testing in Germany.

Further careful tests, approaching the same condition
gradually, over a number of flights, eventually resulted
in an uneventful spin and recovery with exactly the
same conditions of weight and balance as those when
the problem occurred.

'Rogue' spins are very rare, but they can occurr.
Most of the other accounts of them that I have heard
relate to normally very benign types, such as most
of the Grob varients.



At 00:30 03 March 2006, Mark Lenox wrote:

Wear a chute.

I spent alot of time at Estrella in the late 80's.
During that time, the
guy who owned the place, Les Horvath, just about spun
in a Grob 103. Les is
an extremely talented and experienced acro pilot.
He was intentionally
demonstrating a spin while doing a cockpit checkout
for a new instructor.
If I am not mistaken, this was the technique he used
to spin the 103. The
spin went flat and was not recoverable except by the
rear passenger
unbuckling his belts and throwing himself forward over
the rear instrument
panel to move the CG. Afterwards he told me personally
that he would have
bailed out if he had a chute on. He was that convinced
they were not going
to get it unstuck. I think it's just a plain old
good idea to wear one any
time this serious of a maneuver is to be attempted.


Mark


'Stefan' wrote in message
...
Marc Ramsey wrote:

Technique that has worked for me in just about every
21 or 103 I've
...

Thanks, I'll try that as soon as spring is coming.
Not exactly the kind of
spin entry you're looking for in an aerobatic program,
though.

Stefan