Have You Given a Stranger a Ride?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

Have you? If not, why not?
--
Jay Honeck

Yes I have. I was just joy-riding one day and stopped at Boonville, Ca.
(D83). I struck up a conversation with a guy watching me tie down my plane.
After a while I asked if he wanted to go up for a short ride. He did. So
we flew west over to the coastline and back to D83. After we landed he
thanked me and mentioned he was on active duty and home to see his parents
for a few days.

I've not done that since....and it was probably 20 years ago. Thanks for
the reminder Jay. I should do that again a little more often.

John Severyn
KLVK

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
oups.com:

In another thread the "folks by the fence" -- airport spectators --
have been discussed, and a couple of us have stated that we've always
wanted to shut down and ask if anyone wanted to go for a ride.

In my opinion, this single act of kindness would absolutely make
someone's day, and could possibly change their life. And no other act
could help improve the image of general aviation more.

Yet, I've never done it, for a myriad of reasons -- and I don't know
anyone who has.

Have you? If not, why not?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


If Angel Flight counts, then I've had a stranger on board on all but
two that I did. (One was a second filgt with someone I had taken on the
outgoing mission a week earlier and one was cargo only.)

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Not yet as the opportunity hasn't presented itself at an opportune time.
Once, a young guy who works at the local maintenance shop was cruising
through the hangars and stopped to chat. He's a student and asked lots
of questions about our plane and whether we could go flying sometime.
I'd consider it if I'd known him better or had a chance to check with
the maintenance shop to verify that the guy was legitimate.

The closest to seeing "folks at the fence" was when I was down at my
brother's home airport. There's a fence close to the runup area and I
remember taxiing up and there was a boy and his Dad there watching. I
waved, they waved back...and that was about it.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Jay Honeck wrote:

In another thread the "folks by the fence" -- airport spectators --
have been discussed, and a couple of us have stated that we've always
wanted to shut down and ask if anyone wanted to go for a ride.

In my opinion, this single act of kindness would absolutely make
someone's day, and could possibly change their life. And no other act
could help improve the image of general aviation more.

Yet, I've never done it, for a myriad of reasons -- and I don't know
anyone who has.

Have you? If not, why not?
--

Don't see people by the fence these days. not at the Flight Center where I
do most of my flying, nor Hanscom where I'm taking aerobatics, nor even at
Hampton - small grass strip where I got my tailwheel endorsement in a J3.

If there were people watching - if I saw that longing look - I'd be sorely
tempted. I can recall being a plane-hungry kid myself dying to be asked if
I wanted a ride. And so I know what it would mean to some people if they
had the chance.

But then would I make the offer?

There's that litigiousness....

I give rides to strangers all the time...
More so to bald eagles/ gray eagles (what ever you call them).
I figure it this way... I think of all the elevated risks I take for my
enjoyment of flight. It would be sad if I were incapable of stomaching
the "risk" associated with taking a passenger.

The more people in my local community that enjoy aviation the better...
Maybe it isn't enough to make a difference, but I am willing to give it
a shot.

Mike


Jay Honeck wrote:
In another thread the "folks by the fence" -- airport spectators --
have been discussed, and a couple of us have stated that we've always
wanted to shut down and ask if anyone wanted to go for a ride.

In my opinion, this single act of kindness would absolutely make
someone's day, and could possibly change their life. And no other act
could help improve the image of general aviation more.

Yet, I've never done it, for a myriad of reasons -- and I don't know
anyone who has.

Have you? If not, why not?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I give rides to strangers all the time...

How do you avoid being seen by the FAA as "holding out"?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
...
I give rides to strangers all the time...

How do you avoid being seen by the FAA as "holding out"?

He didn't say anything about charging the people. Assuming he doesn't
(seems like a safe assumption), that issue is completely irrelevant.

Pete

He didn't say anything about charging the people. Assuming he doesn't
(seems like a safe assumption), that issue is completely irrelevant.

No, that's not true at all.

There are no FAA regs whose reasonable English interpretation would
forbid carrying passengers for free, but I have spoken with FAA
representatives who state that, by their interpretation of the rules,
offering to take people up, and becoming known for doing so, consititues
a commercial operation whether money is trasnferred or not. This
includes (the example I gave them) announcing at dinner at the college
dorm that you just got your license... er... certificate, and are
willing to take any students up for rides.

How is "holding out" defined by the FAA, and where is it reliably written?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
news
He didn't say anything about charging the people. Assuming he doesn't
(seems like a safe assumption), that issue is completely irrelevant.

No, that's not true at all.

Yes, it is true at all.

There are no FAA regs whose reasonable English interpretation would forbid
carrying passengers for free, but I have spoken with FAA representatives
who state that, by their interpretation of the rules, offering to take
people up, and becoming known for doing so, consititues a commercial
operation whether money is trasnferred or not.

Unfortunately for those representatives, the FAA regulations do not support
their view.

It *is* unfortunate that there are FAA employees who don't even understand
the rules they are supposed to implement. But it does happen.

A commercial operation requires there to be *some* form of compensation.
That is the whole point of the use of the word "compensation" in the
restrictions on the Private Pilot certificate. The FAA has used a very
broad interpretation of the word, even considering flight time to be
compensation. However, I have never heard of them considering a pilot to be
compensated by the mere presence of a passenger.

How is "holding out" defined by the FAA, and where is it reliably written?

Now *that* is a pretty good question. As it happens, the FAA has correctly
found that the more ambiguous a regulation is, the easier it is to use it
against someone. I have found very little in the way of clear, concise
explanation of the concept of "holding out", as well as what constitutes a
commercial operation for the purpose of understanding the various
requirements (pilot qualifications, as well as the regulations governing
commercial operations).

It seems that the most information is available through the precedents of
how the FAA has decided prior cases, which is a time-consuming and
frustrating way to learn the regulations. But that's pretty much what you
have to do with this issue.

And if you do, you'll find that the FAA has never cited a pilot for
violating the pilot qualification requirements or the flight operation
requirements for simply carrying a passenger who provided no compensation to
the pilot or anyone else. When a violating occurs, there's always some
compensation somewhere to someone, in the form of actual money or barter.

Pete

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:40:19 GMT, Jose
wrote:

He didn't say anything about charging the people. Assuming he doesn't
(seems like a safe assumption), that issue is completely irrelevant.

No, that's not true at all.


It's all in semantics.

There are no FAA regs whose reasonable English interpretation would
forbid carrying passengers for free, but I have spoken with FAA
representatives who state that, by their interpretation of the rules,
offering to take people up, and becoming known for doing so, consititues

Stating to a group that you are going to be flying this week end and
if any one would like to go for a ride they are welcome. This by
definition makes the passenger(s) ride incidental to the trip.

OTOH, stating that if any one would like to go for a ride, give you a
call and you'll meet them at the airport this week end makes the ride
the reason for the flight. It is no longer incidental.

a commercial operation whether money is trasnferred or not. This
includes (the example I gave them) announcing at dinner at the college
dorm that you just got your license... er... certificate, and are
willing to take any students up for rides.

Depends on how it's phrased.

Even becoming known for giving rides in and of itself should not be a
reason. Only if the pilot comes out for the sole reason for giving
rides does, or could it become a problem.

If I practice every week end and *offer* a ride to a fence hanger or
two it shouldn't matter. Otherwise about half the pilots I know would
be called on the carpet.

OTOH when I "go out to practice" I sure don't take non pilots and most
of the local pilots don't want to go because I do approach, departure,
and accelerated stalls along with steep turns. Actually I do the
accelerated stalls out of steep turns at close to a 60 degree bank.
For some strange reason not many pilots seem to like stalls and most
hate steep turns, let alone stalling out of a steep turn.


How is "holding out" defined by the FAA, and where is it reliably written?

The passenger's ride is not incidental to the reason for the flight.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Jose