Blue Angels Question(s)

Really! They still showing "God is My Co-Pilot"? The USAF show it to us at
Lackand back in 1955.

My CFI is joining the USAF for aviation training. It took almost all my self
control not give his some "good" advice. But, it made wonder how many tradition
survived. Do they sill through you in the water after your first solo? Do they
still square they meals? Do they still play tag around the clouds (mock
dogfight)? etc.

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:32:03 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...
I have a great affinity for "God is My Co-Pilot" naturally, as I knew
Scotty personally, but my all time favorite air movie has to be
"12'o'clock High", and strangely enough, it's not the air sequences I
liked so much in the film.
The opening sequence with Dean Jagger, the mug, the bicycle, the fence,
the airfield, then the flashback, has to be one of the finest segway
sequences ever filmed. The ending as well, coming back to the present with
Jagger leaving as he came in on the bike truly put a master's touch of
film making on this picture.

Good story, too; the USAF still uses it as a demonstration of strong
leadership.


GeorgeC

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message news:xpTUf.15

..... the USAF still uses it as a demonstration of strong leadership.

Not only the AF. I know the CG and some private sector consultants use the
film to illustrate not only 'strong', but also 'good' leadership techniques
and strategies.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:4jCUf.456$t22.106@dukeread08...
I've seen that movie, a good one. Also a movie, Hunters
with F86.

If you think the movie was good, read the book -- ten times better than the
flik!

Books are almost always better than a movie. Fate Is the
Hunter is a great book and a poor movie.



"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:4jCUf.456$t22.106@dukeread08...
| I've seen that movie, a good one. Also a movie, Hunters
| with F86.
|
| If you think the movie was good, read the book -- ten
times better than the
| flik!
|
|

On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

Yes, they do "bump" once in a while in the formation. There have been
numerous sheet metal "benders" through the years. Naturally, these are
wingtip hits laterally rather than nose hits :-) I remember one of these
occasions quite vividly during the 73 season.
The flow patterns in the diamond are unique to close proximity similar
aircraft. I say similar because in a close Diamond of dis-similar aircraft,
the flow patterns would not be as predictable.
Tip vortices on the left and right wing positions in close tend to cause a
roll away from the opposite aircraft and have to be countered. You can
really feel this as you get in close.
Lead and the slot position have their trim affected as the slot sticks his
nose in where it should be. Lead can actually "feel" the slot in position
and knows by his trim change if the slot slides out too far. The trim change
is nose down for the lead and nose up for the slot, again caused by the flow
patterns.
It's not nearly as smooth in the Diamond as it looks to you from the ground.
There is a lot of movement going on in the formation, especially through
rough air. It takes intense concentration to hold position.
On the cross over question. They use pre-selected hack and checkpoints
briefed by photo recon before the show as well as radio calls when visual.
Timing on the high show bomb burst is a hack call down from lead to the
split S pull on his cadence. There is a visual call by each opposing
aircraft (lead/slot) (left/right wings) and adjustments made during the
downside recovery for altitude and airspeed to seek co-cross at show center.
Naturally, both sides of the runway are used. It saves a hell of a lot of
sheet metal work after the show :-)
Hope this helps a bit.
Dudley Henriques


My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:
My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems
to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as his
full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest power
setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2 wings
to use if they need it.
As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position ,
usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does whatever
it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot on
another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention is
paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead is
off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the formation,
has the excess power spread to hold the position.
There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
Dudley Henriques

Dudley,

I thought your comments about formation flying were very interesting. Please
tell us more!

Jon

"Jon Woellhaf" wrote in message
. ..
Dudley,

I thought your comments about formation flying were very interesting.
Please tell us more!

Jon

Thank you very much for the kind comment.
Formation flying is a whole new world of information. If it's ok, I'd rather
simply answer a few specific questions when I can then ramble on aimlessly
about such a complicated issue :-))
Dudley Henriques

On 3/23/06 8:43 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:
My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems
to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as his
full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest power
setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2 wings
to use if they need it.
As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position ,
usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does whatever
it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot on
another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention is
paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead is
off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the formation,
has the excess power spread to hold the position.
There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
Dudley Henriques


I appreciate your time sir. As a follow up, can I assume that there is no
"fine adjustment knob" to the throttle, and that the ease of movement with
respect to the throttle lever can be set to the pilot's preference?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Generally, you turn your left hand into a micrometer tool by solidly
planting the outside of your palm on the throttle base and using that as a
fulcrum to make extremely small adjustments in power setting. You don't want
to be jockeying around with the power all that much anyway. It's all very
subtle and gently done. Your eyes hardly ever go to the tach. As pilots
become accustomed to a position, it's possible to actually check instruments
and hold position peripherally when going inverted through the float at the
top of a loop for example. This is especially true for the slot.
Dudley Henriques

"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048C595.6B308%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 8:43 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:
My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It
seems
to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines,
requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as
his
full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest
power
setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2
wings
to use if they need it.
As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position
,
usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does
whatever
it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot
on
another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention
is
paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead
is
off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the
formation,
has the excess power spread to hold the position.
There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
Dudley Henriques


I appreciate your time sir. As a follow up, can I assume that there is no
"fine adjustment knob" to the throttle, and that the ease of movement with
respect to the throttle lever can be set to the pilot's preference?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com